I'm thinking of getting into Autocross and I just wanted to get some tips from those who have come before me.

I have an HX with no rear sway, so I'm thinking of going with the Dezod Stage II Suspension package with the 27mm front sway, 22mm rear sway w/mounting kit, tie brace, tokico hp struts, and springs. I'm just not sure of what drop to get. I don't care on the looks side of things, I just want to choose the best drop for the suspension geometry. So input there would be very helpful. Also would it be worth it to me to upgrade to the Tokico D-Spec struts instead?

I've read a great deal about the ES/EM/DC5 suspension geometry and how its greatest flaw is its lack of castor adjustability, Honda's great blunder in giving the Civic/RSX front struts. Is there an affordable aftermarket solution to this for the EM and have any of you implemented it and have feedback on the results?

I am planning on getting 15" Falken Hanabi's for my wheels as they are 15x7 and only weigh 11lbs each... which to me seems incredibly light and for $95/wheel you can't beat that. I imagine they are fairly soft so I'll have to take good care of them, but I can manage that. If there is anything seriously wrong with these wheels let me know.

I really have no idea as far as tires are concerned its a toss up between a miriad of things for me. I'll probably get 205/50R15's. The issue will always be that I have to drive this car daily. So I'd love to put some R compound tires on it but they have to last me a little while at least. I might be able to get away with putting some reasonable tires on the 14" HX wheels and only run the 15's at competition... who knows.

Also, is the 02-05 Civic Si's steering wheel smaller like the RSX and 06-07 Civic Si's? If so I'll probably pick one of those up to make my steering input lower as well. I just wasn't sure if there was any difference from the stock EM wheel other than the 3 spoke design and red stitching.

thanks for any input/suggestions and for reading this long *** post.


Modified by mucter at 10:50 PM 4/30/2007

 

What autox class do you want to run in? That would be the first thing I'd decide then plan your modifications around that (given the rules of the class).

Unless you just want to mod your car then run wherever you fall, but I still don't suggest that.

BTW--driving experience will decrease time much more than any mod you can bolt on your car. Why not just drive the car how it is in stock class for a little while?

 

everytime i go to autoX the people that really tear it up are the people that have a dedicated track wheel with slicks...needless to say, this is probably the best option as far as your tires go.

 

Like Todd00 said I would first decide what class you want to run in. There are only a couple of classes that are for a civic H-Stock, STS, and SM. SM is a very difficult class and usually requires alot of experiance, engine swap, R-compounds, and a crazy suspension setup to even compete (trust me on that), so I would not even consider this class. STS is a decent class for the civic, but you need to have the right combination of mods and setup, and the list that you posted is anything but that. H-stock is probabally your best bet especially since you are just geting into it, your car has to be stock this means no intake, exhaust, or tires of a different diameter. My sugestion would be H-stock, but here are good setups that will make a civic competative for all of the classes that I have listed:

H-stock: Enkei RPF1 15x6 rims, Hoosier A6 225/45/15, K&N replacement air filter, Hawk hps brake pads, adjust as much neg camber in the front as you can using the natural "slop" in the OEM suspension, run 0 toe all the way around, remove spare tire and jack. Also I think you could use the Si wheel as long as it is no more than 1" smaller diameter.

STS: Enkei RPF1 16x7 rims, Falken Azenis RT 615s 215/45/16, AEM CAI, cat back exhaust, AEM pullies, Si rear brake swap, stainless lines, Hawk HPS pads, DOT 4 brake fluid, Tein Flex suspension or Koni yellows and GC coilovers, Ingalls rear camber adjustment, upper camber plates, 21mm rear sway bar, front strut bar, gut the trunk, and run -2.2 front and -1.2 rear camber, set the toe at 0 all the way around. You could use the Si wheel if you really wanted diameter does not matter.

SM : Kswap with hondata, race header, exhaust CAI, quaif LSD, maybe some stage II cams, lightened flywheel, upgraded clutch, Lightweight 16x8 rims, Hoosier A6 245/45/16 (you will need to roll the fenders), gutted trunk, gutted rear seats, small dry cell battery relocated to the trunk, no AC or components, CF hood and trunk, lgihtweight racing seats, racing harness, and all of the above STS suspension mods and settings.


The most important mod of all is SEAT TIME


Modified by bgoetz at 9:46 PM 5/1/2007


Modified by bgoetz at 1:52 AM 5/2/2007


Modified by bgoetz at 3:45 AM 5/2/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Enkei RPF1 15x7 rims, Hoosier A6 225/45/15, K&N replacement air filter, Hawk hps brake pads, a 21mm rear sway bar, a 19mm front sway bar, adjust as much neg camber in the front as you can using the natural "slop" in the OEM suspension, run 0 toe all the way around, remove spare tire and jack. Also I think you could use the Si wheel as long as it is no more than 1" smaller diameter.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Unless the rules changed, the rims and the sway bars are definite no nos. You need to run 15x6 rims, and the stock rear sway bar. No sway bar means you can't run anything.


Edit: typo fixed, IMPORTANT, SEE BELOW


Modified by Boilermaker1 at 9:54 PM 5/1/2007


Modified by Boilermaker1 at 9:55 PM 5/1/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boilermaker1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Unless the rules changed, the rims and the sway bars are definite no nos. You need to run 15x6 rims, and the stock rear sway bar. No sway bar means you can run anything.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So boiler. For a person like me, with an 01 LX, which has no stock rear sway can run any size of sway?

 

Great info, thanks for taking the time to help cure my ignorance.

I'll definately be going with H-Stock... I'm all about starting at the bottom and working my way up. I just want to get some seat time in, as you've all suggested. My goal was just to do what I could for the car before I got started. I knew without a doubt that my stock wheels/tires were not going to do it for me. I'd love to get into STS eventually, but I'm not in a hurry.

Is the stock sway in the front 19mm, if not what is it? and who makes a good 21mm rear? I've only seen the 22mm progress w/mounting kit. Suppose I'll have to get the mounting kit from progress and then buy a different rear sway.

Hopefully in the next couple weeks I'll have the money to buy all of the things you mentioned for H-Stock and hopefully I can get in on the action this season.

Thanks again for the help!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vantage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So boiler. For a person like me, with an 01 LX, which has no stock rear sway can run any size of sway?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, what he said, I don't currently have one either. And are you sure on the wheels?

 

And im pretty sure boiler knows waht he's talking about. Hes teh authority on AutoXing 7thgens.

Boiler what ever happened to ZzyxX? i think that was his name? from 7thgencivic.com

get some Cp035R's.. 7.9 lb's for 15x6's... yum

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mucter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is the stock sway in the front 19mm, if not what is it? and who makes a good 21mm rear? I've only seen the 22mm progress w/mounting kit. Suppose I'll have to get the mounting kit from progress and then buy a different rear sway.

Hopefully in the next couple weeks I'll have the money to buy all of the things you mentioned for H-Stock and hopefully I can get in on the action this season.

Thanks again for the help!</TD></TR></TABLE>

On 2001's our stock front say is 25.4mm = 1"
I currently run the progress 22mm rear sway with adapter kit, and i love it accept for the fact i sheared a mounting bracket. but i talked with progress and they are sending me up a new one. Also, its just easier to get the progress adapter with the progress rear sway, as the instructins only work if u have both pieces, and not only that, but to use the adapter kit u need the template given with the rear sway.

 

You can change/add a FRONT sway bar, it is under section 13.7 of the rules, it also adds that you may even drill holes to accomidate the sway bar, which I will admit was a suprise to me.

You cannot alter the rear

I guess I though the stock rims for an ex were 15x7, if they are 15x6 then you would have to go with the 15x6 and reduce the with of the tire to fit.


Modified by bgoetz at 3:46 AM 5/2/2007

 

21mm u could get the type r rear sway or the 05+ rear sway i believe is also 21. as far as front sway, http://www.geocities.com/bellz....html

 

I have an HX - 14"x5", there's no way in hell I'll go out with those. Am I screwed? And the Type-R sway is 22mm, I know because I just put one on my wife's RSX

 

The 01 hx has the larger front sway bar doesn't it?? If that is the case I would leave the front sway bar alone. I have an H&R 21mm the progress 22mm would be fine too.

If the hx does have the larger sway bar I would switch it out with the smaller 03+ ex sway bar (not sure the diameter, but mine is pretty thin) if you were to move up to STS. My reasoning is that in stock classes you cannot change the camber any more than the OEM parts will allow, so you will be really struggling to get any significant amount of negative camber. Given this you would want the stiffer sway bar to help retain the negative camber you do have during hard cornering. In STS you can alter the camber as much as you want, so retaining camber during hard cornering is less of a concern since you have more negative camber adjusted into it. Not being concerned with this I would want to make the front a good bit softer than the rear to promote more rotation of the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mucter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have an HX - 14"x5", there's no way in hell I'll go out with those. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think the model of you car matters as long as those tires were available on A CIVIC of the same chasis and same year, you can run that size rim. An ex has 15x6 rims, so you should be able to use those. With that, I would say what about the special performace civics??? What size rims do those have?? If they are larger than the ex then I think you could run those also. Boiler do you know the answer to this??

 

I'm reading the rules now for stock class and it says that you can change the shocks, just not the ride height... does this sound right? so could I run tokico hp's with the stock springs?

it also says this about the sways:
B. Rear anti-roll (sway) bars may not be removed, replaced, or modified in any way.

 

ok... gotta correct a big goof up typo. I meant to say you CAN'T run anything. as in CANNOT. No swaybar means NONE.
Sorry for confusion

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mucter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

it also says this about the sways:
B. Rear anti-roll (sway) bars may not be removed, replaced, or modified in any way.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is correct, I missread and was incorrect in my 1st post. So I guess you can only change the front sway bar, so I would just leave the sway bars alone.

I edited my posts so noone is confused

 

wow, that sucks, so even though an EX has a rear sway, I can't run one. So it sounds like my HX wouldn't really be a good candidate for this...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bgoetz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I don't think the model of you car matters as long as those tires were available on A CIVIC of the same chasis and same year, you can run that size rim. An ex has 15x6 rims, so you should be able to use those. With that, I would say what about the special performace civics??? What size rims do those have?? If they are larger than the ex then I think you could run those also. Boiler do you know the answer to this??</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is actually a very important question because I can't find any wheels that are 15x6 and are light. everything is 15x7...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mucter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is actually a very important question because I can't find any wheels that are 15x6 and are light. everything is 15x7...</TD></TR></TABLE>

That also may apply to the rear sway bar, although the rear sway on an ex is really not worth a damn.

 

yeah I was wondering that as well because of this clause:
"Option package conversions may be performed between specific vehicles of a particular make and model, but only between configurations from within a particular model year."

Does that mean I could run an EX engine in my HX if I wanted, do they even look at the car as an HX or do they just look at it as a 04 Civic and evaluate it based on what any 04 Civic could have had.

Who do I need to talk to for a concrete answer?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mucter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is actually a very important question because I can't find any wheels that are 15x6 and are light. everything is 15x7...</TD></TR></TABLE>

They are tough but they can be found.

Te37's 8.2 lbs
CP0335R's 7.9lbs
SSR Type C ( Competitions) 8.0 lbs

Almost and 15x6 is a great improvement over the EX's stock 22lb wheels.

Check out http://www.wheelweights.net for all your wheel questions.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mucter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who do I need to talk to for a concrete answer?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Boiler, Boiler, Boiler, he is easily the most knowledgable person here when it comes to autoX'ing.

 

yeah its a shame that they weighed the EX's down like that. But my HX wheels have got to be incredibly light. The 96-97 HX wheels were only 11.8 lbs, I haven't been able to find a site that has the weight of the wheels on the 01-05 HX... but I assume they are similar. WheelWeights.net does not have the 01-05 HX

 

What size of OEM wheel did your car come with? *That's* the size that you must use for stock class (unless otherwise a factory option--and don't mix factory option with dealer option--they are not the same). Didn't some of the older 01-03 Civics come with 14x5.5" wheels?

If that's the case, then that's the size you have to run, period.