So i'm looking through my zex nitrous install directions and notice that in order to run a 75 shot I have to retard the ignition 4 degree's (retarding ignition=adjusting timing, correct?).

But, isn't it true that on newer Honda's/Acura's we cannot adjust the timing (or retard the ignition) since its controlled by the ECU? So would it be ok to run this 75 shotwithout adjusting anything as its supposed to adjust itself? I'm aware that I need 2 degree colder spark plugs, but this has been buggin me a bit since this is the shot I wanna run at the track. Thanks in advance!

 

I run a ZEX wet kit on my 98 EX, with the 75 shot. Now, I'm not sure if it produces the full 75 because I didn't do anything to the timing. BUT what I can tell you is that if you put in the jets for a 55 shot, and then the jets for a 75 shot - you can feel the power difference. So I'm not sure if it actually allows for the full 75 or what.

Also, I'm running the ZEX spark plugs...you could look into those as well.

 

How often do you spray, is everything feel alright without timing adjusted? Its not like we spray constantly so I dont even understand the point of adjusting the timing in general.

I've heard mixed reviews on the zex spark plugs, some people tell me they are crappy, so I was going to get NGK 2 degree colder plugs.


Modified by XzIpK at 1:22 PM 4/14/2007

 

When I first got my kit in, I used a whole bottle in about 20 minutes. After that I chilled out and used it every few days. The cost of filling the bottle is nearly $40 in the summer, so I chilled out quite a bit due to cost. Just make sure your bottle pressure is around 900 or you will not get full power.

But everything felt alright...really nice power gain. But if you are taking it to the track, people do the timing adjustments so they can get the full power potential...but as everyday driving I don't think it's necessary. I don't think driving around with jacked timing would be to good.

Also, the ZEX plugs...I didn't really notice any difference. I just got them so detonation doesn't occur. They look neat though

 

lol

Sounds good, I plan to only spray when I gotta get the big boat movin against some competion that the J32 cant handle alone Thanks for the quick response!

How many miles have those zex plugs seen?


Modified by XzIpK at 10:34 PM 4/14/2007

 

Well I'm running it on the stock F23 motor, so you might have different results on the J32, but you shouldn't.

The plugs have been used for maybe 4,000 or less....I'm not too sure actually.

The good thing about the ZEX kit is it's pretty much foolproof so you won't blow your motor (unless you run over 75 shot on stock internals) AND it's instant power right at full throttle.

 

Yeah, im def lookin forward to that instant power. 75 Shot on a V6 should be fine since most of the 4cyl guys are running that. I know a few people that run 100 shot, but im gonna gonna go that far, plus I dont have the jet for that anway.

 

you need to retard the timing or the engine could detonate. Detonation occurs when maximum cylinder pressure occurs before TDC. Nitrous Oxide is an oxidizer. Which means that the A/F mixture will burn alot quicker, which means you will reach maximum cylinder pressure before TDC. Not only will you lose power, but you will eventually melt a piston, or just blow a hole in it.

You want maximum cylinder pressure to occur a couple degrees AFTER TDC. That way, the expanding gasses aren't trying to force the piston back down when the crank is tring to push it up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM_DC4_Fanatic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you need to retard the timing or the engine could detonate. Detonation occurs when maximum cylinder pressure occurs before TDC. Nitrous Oxide is an oxidizer. Which means that the A/F mixture will burn alot quicker, which means you will reach maximum cylinder pressure before TDC. Not only will you lose power, but you will eventually melt a piston, or just blow a hole in it.

You want maximum cylinder pressure to occur a couple degrees AFTER TDC. That way, the expanding gasses aren't trying to force the piston back down when the crank is tring to push it up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks man, thats what I wanted to hear. So how do I go about doing this if the ECU adjusts timing by itself? I should get some kind of programming that piggybacks off the ECU? But then wouldn't it be bad for driving normally with the adjusted timing?

Here is a interesting thought, on our cars, when you put in lower octane gas (such as 87) instead of the 93, the computer adjusts the timing itself to prevent knock and detonation but causes the engine to not perform 100%; yet it is safe. Isn't this kind of similar?

 

****, that post just threw me all off....now I don't want to run NOS anymore. Guess it's 55 shot or find a way to do the timing......get a timing box I suppose.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98savage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">****, that post just threw me all off....now I don't want to run NOS anymore. Guess it's 55 shot or find a way to do the timing......get a timing box I suppose.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You still dont get it. Adding any ammount of an oxidiser, or even using a diffrent octane rating requires an adjustment in timing. Octane is a rating of a fuels resistance to burn. The higher the octane, the more it RESISTS burn, so you advance the timing, so it fires sooner and reaches maximum cylinder pressure at the right time. If you drive a porsche that is designed for 91 octane, and you pump in 87, you could detonate the engine. Its the same with nitrous, if you add ANY ammount of nitrous, you run a great risk of detonation.

 

Wait a sec....What motor do you have? Most accords have adjustable timing, unless you have a J swap?

 

I'm on the stock F23 VTEC engine...haven't done any internal work. So how do I adjust the timing...or does it do it by itself?

See, I run NOS racing octane booster once in a while and have never had a problem. I haven't detonated any spark plugs and I changed to the ZEX plugs a while back because I was afraid of detonation.

Also, I was thinking....couldn't you just get a cam gear and retard or advance the timing that way? I have a cam gear that I haven't installed yet....I can retard it by 4 degrees and be set with the nitrous.....UNLESS the ECU would retard the timing on its own....which we still need to find out from you what you're talking about when you say they have adjustable timing.

 

cam timing and ignition timing are 2 diffrent things. Adjusting the cams means that they will open and close sooner/later. To adjust timing on your motor, all you need to do is loosen the bolts on the distributor and move it forwards or backwards. if you adjust the cam timing wrong you could expletive up the head. If you set the CAM timing wrong, the valves could still be open when the piston is at tdc, and if that happens, its time for a H22 swap. 'nuff said

 

So how do I know if I've retarded the timing by 4 degrees?

 

get a timing light. put the inductive pick up on the #1 cylinder spark plug wire and aim the light at the timing marks. The timing marks are on the Harmonic balancer(crank pully) and the pointer is on the timing cover. + is retard and - is advance.

Look at your helms or repair manual and see what the factory timing should be, and go based on that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM_DC4_Fanatic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cam timing and ignition timing are 2 diffrent things. Adjusting the cams means that they will open and close sooner/later. To adjust timing on your motor, all you need to do is loosen the bolts on the distributor and move it forwards or backwards. if you adjust the cam timing wrong you could expletive up the head. If you set the CAM timing wrong, the valves could still be open when the piston is at tdc, and if that happens, its time for a H22 swap. 'nuff said</TD></TR></TABLE>

This may be a thread jack but Someone is going to have to go into this a bit more for me....On my accord 96 F22B2 I don't have the option to loosen my bolts and turn the distributor to adjust my timing...the only way for me to adjust anything is to get a gam gear or Flash my ECU so I have been told...can someone explain this too me as it seems to contradict what JDM_DC4_Fanatic is saying here....Help?

If you are unable to advance your timing manually try running a set of colder range NGK BKR7E spark plugs. This cool range will help with detonation problems wile running NOS

 

I ran a 75 shot on my Accord for quite a while and saw great results with 1/2 92 octane and 1/2 100 fuel. There was a night and day difference when I upped the octane.

Now I have a Mallory Hyfire VI ignition box. It has push button timing retard capabilities, a push button rpm-activated window switch, and 2 step launch control. All for about $250

 

you wont need to retard your timing if you run a higher octane fuel. 87 octane had an excitability level thats higher than 91. higher octane provided a smoother flamefront. adding nitrous is the same concept as boost and higher compression. more to squeeze! the more volitile (or unstable, if u will) the fuel mix, the greater risk of detonation. think of 87 octane as natural ice, or milwaukees best ice. then think of 91 octane being miller geuine draft. then think of 100 octane as like southern comfort... the higher u go, the less harsh the drink gets

 

I might just get an ignition box such as the one you have, hando. I was looking at MSD's ignition box as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM_DC4_Fanatic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wait a sec....What motor do you have? Most accords have adjustable timing, unless you have a J swap?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dunno if you were talking to me or not, but I have an Acura TL (J32A1). I posted here cause the Acura TL forum is not as active and not many people run nitrous on those cars anyways.

I posted this earlier in this thread, but limme recite it. On our cars its optional to have 93 Octane (although its recommended), but most people (such as grandmas and non-car enthusiasts) use 87 Octane to fill up. My father has a TL and also uses 87 Octane for about 80K miles now with no problems. From what I read on my forum is that our ECU adjusts the timing by itself to avoid knock and detonation. So wouldn't the same happen if I were to run a 75 Shot, it would adjust itself? I run 93 Octane on my car, just for the record.

 

you shoule be ok with your J motor. However, i'm not 100% sure, since i have never juiced one of those. Although, it is in my experience that a vehicle that is equiped with a knock sensor should be ok to run a mild nitrous set up w/o modification. the computer may pick up on the knock and adjust itself accordingly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GhostAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This may be a thread jack but Someone is going to have to go into this a bit more for me....On my accord 96 F22B2 I don't have the option to loosen my bolts and turn the distributor to adjust my timing...the only way for me to adjust anything is to get a gam gear or Flash my ECU so I have been told...can someone explain this too me as it seems to contradict what JDM_DC4_Fanatic is saying here....Help?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like they said before, cam timing and ignition timing are two different things. Adjusting your cam timing won't help with NO2, you have to adjust the timing of the spark to control the combustion of it.

You can adjust the timing manually on the F22B2, loosen the 3 bolts on the dizzy and rotate it accordingly, you'll hear the difference in idle if you move it enough one way or another.

 

Thank you for the clearification

 

To correct my previous post, the factory spec timing on F series motors is 13-17 degrees advance. Most nitrous kits require a 4-6 degree retard for a 75 shot. This means that your timing should be around 7-13 degrees advance.

If your running a J32 like the OP, I would look into custom ECU tuning, or a stand alone ignition system. I was talking to Honda this afternoon asking about the Knock Sensor. From what one of the mechanics told me, if the sensor reads constant knock(detonaton) it will eventuially shut down, and give a cell. It will run in 'limp' mode untill the problem is serviced. This means that only occasional use of nirous is possible, otherwise, you risk running problems. However, the mechanic didnt have experience with nitrous, and nobody at my shop does other then myself. This is all speculation thus far. I would say that you need some type of tuning or stand alone ignition for J series.

Rip that 3.2 ouf of there and get the 2.3 back in its home and juice the hell out of it