I got a crazy one for you guys. Here it goes:

This is on a turbo'd B18C1 with a B16 head. Swapped a head gasket, put everything back together. Of course went through the steps of TDC, marking timing belt, etc etc. (Not the first time I have done one, won't be the last). So anyways here is where is starts to get weird. Everything lines back up for TDC. Start the car and sounds like timing is way off. So I was checking it, and went ahead and just advanced the distributor basically as fas as it can go (towards the firewall for advanced). Look at the SManager and the most I can get at that fully advanced position is 13 degrees at idle. Which I verified with the timing light. WTF I am thinking, fully advanced should be somewhere about 21-25 degrees. With it at this position (13 degrees) the car will respond and create boost while on the 2 step (1 bar, the gate pressure), and comes up and down in response to tapping the throttle. But the idle still does not sound too good (1600's by the way). So I have gone through and checked everything about ten times. I will go through everything that I did. Hopefully it is something simple that I am just overlooking . . .

1. So first changed distributors to make sure that none of my sensors where screwed up internally, while also bypassing all the MSD ignition stuff as well. No luck, same thing happened.

2. Swapped cams/cam gears thinking maybe the cams were twisted like 4 degrees or something, and or maybe the machining of the gears was off. No luck, same thing still (yes I relashed for the new cams as well).

3. Ran a ruler through the 3 and 9 dimples/lines of the cam gears just to double check that they were truly in line. They were/are.

4. Counted the number of "female" grooves in the belt in between the "up" positions on the cam gears, and counted the same number on another B18C1. Both were 12 grooves.

5. Checked to make sure that the distributor was in fact pointing to number 1 wire, it was/is.

6. Locked the cams with the 5mm dimples, verifying that the cams were truly at TDC.

7. Used long extension to make sure that #1 was at TDC. It is right in the dwell, perfect.

8. Compared pointer on oil pump to crank woodruff key, was/is ok.

9. Checked all grounds, but you would figure if it was something like that, it would not get better as I advanced the timing, it would continue to do it no matter what until I fixed the grounding issue.

10. New set of plugs.

11. New cap/rotor.

12. All sets of cam gears were/are set to 0.

13. Pulled the head again, and everything looks good. No vavles floating open. You figure if that was the case I probably would have crashed the valve train by now, as I was on the 2 step which was set at like 7100.

14. Never had a hard time stating the car. It would basically fire within a cranking or two. Sometimes didn't even have to give it gas, so you know there is good compression. I did not do a compression test though.

So help me out here guys. Why is it that I am like 10 degrees off on cam timing, yet everything is lining up. Like I said the best I can get is 13 degrees with the distributor fully advanced. That is usually 21-25 degrees. So where is that cam timing hiding?

Jason

 

I'm guessing your running hondata? Basically your saying that the car sounds like its running on 3 cylinders cause you said it sounded like timing was off? Wasnt exactly sure what you meant when you said timing sounds way off so i assume that. When you try reving it up does it sound like a subaru?

This post is so big i'm not sure where to start haha. Is your car just running like crap or is it your your having a timing problem? I've never looked through the hondata software but is there a start up calibration? What is your timing looking like at idle on the computer?

 

Yea I guess maybe I should have said something about how exactly I felt it was running. No, not that it sounds like it was a Subaru. It's just the way it's running, I was like something is not right. If it was running like a Subaru, then I would probably be starring at some valves just stayting open on me, but I do not have that.

Just trying to figure out where all that timing went when having the distributor advanced completely and only getting 13 degrees with the timing light.

Jason

 

Are you using a adjustable timing light? I'm assuming your run a fluidamper, i've never actually seen what the timing marks look like but i guess it doesnt really matter. Have your tried driving your car at all? Is there a wideband hooked up, if so how are the a/f looking like?

Obviously you know what your doing to have a 9sec car. Usually before you start tuning any car your going to want the sync the dist with the computer. Take a look at what your timing at idle on the computer see what its at.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlowReaction &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you using a adjustable timing light? I'm assuming your run a fluidamper, i've never actually seen what the timing marks look like but i guess it doesnt really matter. Have your tried driving your car at all? Is there a wideband hooked up, if so how are the a/f looking like?

Obviously you know what your doing to have a 9sec car. Usually before you start tuning any car your going to want the sync the dist with the computer. Take a look at what your timing at idle on the computer see what its at.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah like I said the SManager says I have 13 degrees as well. Just like the timing light. No, it is just a regular timing light. The Fluidampr has marks for 0 degrees (TDC) then there are marks going all the way up to 26 gegrees in 2 degress increments. The AFR's at idle (when I can get it to stay there will bounce around from 13's to a little leaner). If you give it gas the AFR's are 12's (no real load on the car, just sitting there taking up to 2 step engagement point). Yeah so I can sync the two, but I should not have to have that dizzy cranked all the way advanced to just barely get me to that 13 degrees. As it idles you can just hear that something does not sound right timing wise. I mean if I had the 16 degrees and had a bad idle that would usually tell me look at the exhaust cam/cam gear, it would be off somewhere. But damn I can not even get it to 16 degrees. Feel like I am just beating my head against a wall missing something.

Jason

 

I finally get what your saying now haha. took awhile. I'm not really sure what the problem could be that you would need to crank your dizzy all the way just so you could sync it with the computer.

So pretty much all you did was pull the head to change the gasket? Didnt mess with any wiring?

 

That would be correct. At least not knowingly.

Jason

 

What does your ignition system consist of? Stock dizzy? Model msd, etc.

 

This car has the MSD Digital 6 with the MSD Blaster HVC coil. I also bypassed that by putting in a stock distributor though just to eliminate both the MSD set up as well as anything that could be going wrong with the other one (i.e. bad TDC sensor, etc) or a bent shaft on the distributor even. Got the same results.

Jason

 

21-25 degrees at idle??? isn't 13 degrees at idle normal - I could see 21-25 degrees of full advance under full load under boost. My car would idle around 14 degrees on my aem ems and hit 24 degrees at 16psi? Maybe I am confused at what your talking about?