Okay, so this is an old story (happened last year) and some of you might have heard of it.

First thing, they do good work... BUT they still scammed me in a business deal. I've also heard reports of them scamming other people (after doing work for those other people) and having some similar issues with another friend of his, who happens to be a friend of my boyfriend and I too.

So here is the story, taken from another forum where I posted it real time. I'll add dates for everything so the report is clear. Sorry for the long post, first story has cliff at the bottom. If you plan to deal with them I'd suggest you read the entire post though.

And yes, I know I should have been smarter about this. I should have had paperwork signed, but I gave them too much credit in thinking that friends would hold up their end of the deal and not forget what they promise. This is the same business that helped do my boyfriend's engine swap (before the business opened) and he had no issues what so ever.

I finally ended up rebuilding my transmission myself. It has not yet been put into the car because I don't have the experience or the tools. My boyfriend (in the story named Jason) has experience doing a clutch job and could probably manage it, but again, no tools or help.

Keep in mind this was a long time coming before I even started the posts. They might not scam you, but they scammed me and others in the past.

All the following is exactly how I experienced it. I tried to keep most emotion out of it and just post what happened.


Original thread: http://www.clubcivic.com/board...86464
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06-05-2006, 06:47 AM

Okay... I've been trying to not mention it too much because I've heard in the past through other reliable people that I'm "talking ****" just by stopping by this place. It's been at bare minimum three weeks that I've been waiting now though.

As many of you know, I have a bad main shaft/input shaft bearing and I've bought a Z6 tranny locally to replace my stock Y8. I've been having problems with my tranny since late September '04 and so I'm very eager to get this fixed now that I have the part.

Before I picked up this transmission though, I detailed a couple of cars for some friends who own a local shop called Zeller Automotive. They had one car (a black '96 Civic EX coupe) that they meant to sell. The first time I saw the car upon walking into their shop I was told by Doug Zeller, "I want you to clean/detail that," as he pointed to his newly acquired Civic. Not sure if he said clean or detail, but I remember it clearly either way. I brought my detailing supplies over in the coming days so I'd be prepared to get it done that coming weekend when I had some time (I was still working as a detailer at a lot at that time and couldn't do it within the week).

That weekend I started the car. I believe I started it on a Friday (wash, clay and polish) and finished it on Saturday (glaze, wax, vacuum, spot treat, washed interior plastics, glass, tires, etc). Jason even donated some old black housing headlights to replace it's oxidized stock ones and I donated a set of taillights to replace the stock ones which had algae growing in them. It turned out we only had to replace the inner taillights though. The outters are still at the shop anyway though and they kept all the old parts.

Somewhere within this time I talked to Mike Zeller, Doug's odler brother (I think they're around 27 and 29). I mentioned doing this work as a labor trade and having it go towards swapping a new transmission into my car. Mike verified that it sounded fair and agreed (wish I had made note on exactly what he said). Jason witnessed this owner agreeing to a labor trade. At ths point I did not have the transmission. All of the above has happened within 3-4 weeks (I know I posted images of the freshly detailed cars on another web forum on 5-14-06 and I had done this work within a week before of that time though the images were taken right after finishing the second car the day I finished the second car).

After I finished the Civic, Doug Zeller was happy with the job and told me he wanted me to do the same to his car, a blue and black ~2004 WRX STi. I knew the black paint that covered part of the car was aftermarket and had been previously informed of it's poor quality before I even saw the car. I figured it would be easy enough to not destroy the paint anyway since I have a gentle hand. No damage came to either vehicle and they both turned out perfect save for the etched clearcoat on the hood of the Civic and the scratches on the roof from a rack (also there was a dented/rusted passenger fender I had to be careful about).

I started the STi the day after I finished the Civic if I remember correctly. I think it was late the day I finished the Civic so I didn't bother to even wash the STi. This car, given it's age and the way the previous/current owners had treated was in much better shape. I detailed the entire car within a day. It's a lot easier when you don't have to ask someone to push it back into the garage after you wash it. As per the feelings of the sole owner of the STi (Doug Zeller) I did not dress the tires. He didn't ask me, but had previously expressed his dislike of tire shine.

Before I began detailing the STi I had to get a ride over to my house because I had no clean microfiber cloths. I had come over to the garage with Jason in his car. So Doug Zeller, the owner of the STi, offered me a ride over to my house a few miles down the road. While in the car he told me he wasn't going to let me do his car for free. I should have noticed then that this might mean he thought I was doing the Civic for free even though I was under the impression that he and Mike Zeller had a clear path of communication. I did tell him that Mike Zeller had spoken to me before and agreed to do a labor trade for the detail on the Civic, and if it was fine with him I'd like to do the same for the STi because that would put me closer to getting my tranny done. Doug Zeller told me he'd rather pay me in cash but he was fine with my proposed deal. When I got back I proceded to detail the STi without incident.

That day Mike Zeller happened to come down with a fever at work and laid in the chair in the bay I was working in for most of the time I was working. He slept a lot. He refused to go home, fell asleep on his cell phone twice, and repeatedly forgot things that had just happened that day. I took care of him, gave him aspirin and encourged him to drink water so he wouldn't dehydrate himself.

I did this work in their shop because the Civic had a thrown rod and wasn't going anywhere it wasn't pushed. Plus, it was convenient for all of us and they had an extra bay where I could do my work out of the way. Both Mike and Doug were in the shop at the time that I was detailing both cars. The Civic has since been sold (asking price was $6,500 though I'm not sure what it sold for). I price my details at $150 for a full car.

The next weekend after detailing both cars I picked up a Z6 transmission to later swap into my car. Jason and I spoke with the Doug and Mike of the garage before so we could make sure it was okay that the transmission was kept in their shop (Zeller Autootive) until it was installed. They said sure so that day we picked up the transmission from the Tacome Mall (where we met the seller) and dropped it off immediately at the shop. It's been sitting there since.

I've stopped by a couple times to see when they might be able to fit me in. I was surprised the first time I stopped by alone when I was told that neither of them remembers agreeing to this deal. The first day I stopped by was the day or the day after I was discharged from my job (if I find my discharge paper I can confirm the date). They agreed to do it anyway. They asked me how much I charged for a detail and I told them $150 a car. Somewhere around this time (the day or before) I was told that a tranny swap would normally cost $350. The next day we dropped off the tranny.

I came back later alone to see when we might be able to get the swap done. I was told by Mike Zeller, "After our paying customers." This was insulting because I had paid already in the form of labor (basically I gave them $300 payment and they already spent it on details through me). I didn't make a big deal out of it anyway though. A point was also made to point out the Mike Zeller's lifted Jeep was detailed for $70 including undercarriage. Around this time I ended up sick from catching whatever the one owner had. Jason talked to them a bit without me along because I couldn't leave the house. I later heard through Jason that I had stopped by and was "talking ****". I was told that Doug Zeller had said Mike Zeller had said I was "talking ****". I admit I wasn't in a good mood because I need this work done soon, but I didn't talk down to anyone or about anyone.

I later stopped by with Jason and once again was told pretty much the same thing. This time Jason witnessed Mike Zeller telling me, "If I wanted my car cleaned, I would have done it myself instead of pay you $250 to do it." This was the day I was told a tranny swap normally costs $250.

That's the last time I stopped by, which was last weekend or around then. My car still needs a new tranny and the Z6 tranny is still sitting in the garage.

NOTE:
- Asked to detail black Civic. Detailed black Civic.
- Made agreement with Doug Zeller to do a labor trade for work. He agreed. Jason witnessed this.
- Was asked to detail Doug Zeller's blue/black STi.
- Doug Zeller was told of previous agreement while in the car, he preferred cash but agreed to labor trade. Only Doug Zeller and myself were in the car at the time.
- Detailed blue/black STi.
- Stopped by alone later that week to see when they could do my tranny swap. No one remembers the agreement. They agree to it anyway. They were told a detail charges about $150/car. I was told a tranny swap costs $350 normally.
- Jason and I stopped by garage on way to pick up tranny to make sure we could drop tranny off at garage. They said we could. Picked up tranny and dropped it off at garage.
- Was later told by Mike Zeller that they'd do my car "After our paying customers." I had stopped by alone this time.
- Stopped by with Jason and was told by Mike Zeller "If I wanted my car cleaned, I would have done it myself instead of pay you $250 to do it." This time I was told a tranny swap costs $250 normally.
- Tranny is still in the shop. Car's current tranny is still grinding.

SORRY for the long story, but I wanted to get all details in.

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06-05-2006, 07:38 AM

The Civic is sold and I'm not doing anything to anyone's cars.

Basically I'm thinking about going and picking up the tranny and just dropping the whole thing. I'd be pissed about that though because I'd still be out $300 (what the work I did was worth).

Jason thinks they might be seeing things each from a personal POV. In other words... Doug Zeller thinks he's trading my tranny swap ($250-350) for the detail of his STi ($150) and Mike Zeller thinks he's trading my tranny swap ($250-350) for the detail of the Civic ($150). :???:

Jason hasn't mentioned to them that he did hear the initial agreement either because he's afraid it will create drama. This is more than a little frusterating to me because I have a witness, but as long as that witness doesn't step forward and I'm the only one who remembers the agreement... then it looks like I'm lying. Even now, 3-4 weeks after the agreement, it's too late I think for him to mention it. He's my boyfriend so it would seem like I finally persuaded him to agree with me or something.

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06-05-2006, 09:51 AM
Well, come to find out the tranny I bought is fucked too. teh input shaft bearing has about an inch or somethign of play they told me.

I'm glad they looked at it finally but we had to call them.

Now they're saying they can just replace my parts in my tranny with new ones. Why didn't they mention the'd do that before? It'd be about $60 more than the tranny has cost... but I have to get ahold of the seller of the tranny and get my money back. When we met he said if there were any grinds that he would pay me back. He was soft spoken and seemed cool... So I hope he'll meet up with me soon and I can get my cash back.

Who has shitty luck again? Dealing with the wrong people come to find out, etc.

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06-05-2006, 10:03 AM

And when I say "they looked at it finally " what I really mean is "picked it up and moved the transmission to somewhere else".

This is the first time they looked at it at all as far as I know. In fact Mike Zeller pointed to it the other day and said, "What is that to? Well it has to move."

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06-05-2006, 10:27 AM

It pisses me off because I already paid for this too though. I would rather pay for it than have people feel like they should help me for free. I paid for it, in fact I paid $50 extra if you go by the price of $250 that they quoted me. That's the price they said in front of Jason too, and he'll need a new tranny so I hope they got it right.

I know I won't be going back after this run-around though. Sad too... he did really nice wiring harnesses.

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06-05-2006, 06:08 PM

Now they say they want to rebuild my tranny and the price will only be $60 more than my tranny (so a total of $200). I'm so tired of dealing with this.

Mike Zeller told Jason on the phone that when he picked the transmission up to move it elsewhere the bearing or something moved all around like an inch or more which it's not supposed to do.

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06-15-2006, 11:17 PM

Today I happened to stop by a few doors down from the shop I've been having trouble with.

I was talking to one of the employees and he happened to mention to me something he found interesting.

"You know, I hear they're supposed to be swapping these Acura engines, V6s and all, into these little Hondas. I haven't seen a single delivery truck delevering any of this though."

Not word for word, but damn close.

I know one motor (I think a D15) had been ordered from H-Motors, but then it wouldn't start in the 6th gen EX they put it in. They ended up getting another motor but I don't know from where. Never heard about what happened to the D15 either.

I'm not saying anything is happening or not. Just relaying an odd conversation.

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06-17-2006, 11:50 AM

Their word against mine for the most part. The only person who heard any of it was Jason and he only heard one of the two guys agree (he heard the agreement about the Civic). The same guy later said he thought I detailed them because, "I enjoy it".

Plus they're friends of Jason.

We picked up the Z6 tranny yesterday and asked about getting me paid instead. Mike Zeller said he'd have to talk to Doug Zeller about it first. The guy who said this was the one who originally preferred to pay me.

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07-08-2006, 01:00 PM

Jason (Eran) and Scott (3DScott) went to the Zeller Automotive today to get Scott's car lowered. Yes, the shop is doing more business and getting more money.

Anyway, Jason promised to talk to the shop owners (Doug Zeller and Mike Zeller) about either getting all the parts and stuff he contributed (tech info, computer, monitor, headlights, taillights, etc etc) or get me paid for the work I did.

Doug told him that had they known I was charging them (IT WAS A LABOR TRADE) then they would have gotten someone else to do it since so many other people would have done it for free.

So basically I'm being forced into doing it for free now.

I had to tell Jason that he just neded to leave because I felt like I needed to hit something. Jason had stopped by for his stock LCAs because one of Scott's is bent.

So there it is, Zeller Automotive. Maybe they won't screw you over, but they screwed me over. Just fair warning.

And yes, this is the same shop that belongs to friends of Jason which Jason has even advertised on this site (and others I believe).


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07-08-2006, 02:27 PM

And before I get any nasty messages on MySpace (I began getting nasty messages from their former secretary on MySpace), this is what happened. I got fucked over because I trusted people that apparently I shouldn't have.

Jason witnessed nearly all of this and Doug and Mike both agreed TWICE to this arrangement and then dragged it out. I've been told to call the cops on them or something, that it was a verbal contract... but it's not even worth the effort. I'll just make sure to let people know how these new business owners operate.

Very professional...

My friend's story:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well when i first went there it was kinda odd. The guy that owns the place is Doug, and he has a brother or friend named Mike, i think.. Anyway i went there to get my TEIN S techs installed and about halfway threw the install one of the guys working there said that my control arm was bent. Jason looked and it and very nicely gave me his old one, but that was back at his house. We only took my car so jason had to ask one of his friends there to take him back to his place to get the part. Anyway i went in the waiting room and sat there waiting for Jason to get back. While i was sitting there, the office in front of me has it's lights off. Mike walks around the corner, not knowing im in the waiting room yells to Doug why is this door locked? Doug replies well Jason left and i did not want his friend to go in there and mess around with stuff...... I just laughed and went outside to wait. You really dont feel like your welcome there, you feel like they dont want to get to know you and they just want your money. Basicly dont go there.. Amy had to worse off and it sucks, but just dont go there...;[</TD></TR></TABLE>


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07-28-2006, 05:12 PM

Oh, so Jason got a call yesterday from Doug Zeller to tell him that Jason and I are no longer welcome at Zeller Automotive. Gee, and we were just about to go down and hang out.

Seems someone told Doug about this thread. I have an idea of who it could be, since she's snooped around and tried to make drama before by checking up on Jason and myself (I've met her maybe once or twice, never spoken to her even though). So Doug has said he'll be posting in this thread to say "what really happened". I'm actually looking forward to seeing what he has to say since so far neither of them have told us what really happened. All Jason and I have been told is what we said happened... didn't.

Oh, and Jason finally told Doug that he was there when Mike agreed to the deal in the first place.

Just figured I'd keep updating the thread as to anything that happens.


If anyone cares, the secretary came into the original thread and started talking about how I was a liar and such. That she never heard any agreement and thus is must not have happened. I don't even think she was there when they agreed to it. She eventually got banned, signed back up and got banned again and threatened with a report to her ISP and her info was posted.

 

I have known Doug for years. He is a really good guy!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsrhb7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have known Doug for years. He is a really good guy!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've known him for years too. He is generally a good guy. I've been going to his garage since Junior year in highschool. Doug and Mike helped me do my engine swap. We used to go on road trips with them. I helped them build their business up, gave them furniture, computers, helped install the lifts, did parts runs for them, drummed up business.

None of that changes what happened. He used to be my friend until he called me at home and told me never to show my face at his shop again.

 

goddamn, i jsut read a damn book

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by niccuhles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">goddamn, i jsut read a damn book</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol... Sorry about that. It was from several days' posts.

Btw, I own that blue rear lip you used to have now. Still looking for new brackets though... might have found some.

/off topic

 

Good info.

 

Three ******* months later...