Review: Civic Si vs. Mazdaspeed 3 vs. GTI Fahrenheit
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From: Beaverton, Or, USA
Review: Civic Si vs. Mazdaspeed 3 vs. GTI Fahrenheit
My subjective review (thanks for the idea, Hyogen)
Baseline: My 2007 Si
I'll start by saying that I already own an '07 Si with a TWM short-shifter/bushings, 35% tint, and WeatherTech FloorLiners. No performance mods yet, but the perhaps the short shifter will influence my views on the other cars later on. I enjoy the Si specifically because there's nothing like it -- I enjoy the high-revving, turbo-like i-vtec action, and it feels like a sports car. It doesn't feel like a Civic. If you owned a "normal" DX/LX/EX Civic, you could peek inside someone's Si and be envious of the cool looking Si-emblazoned seats, black mesh/suede-like interior, and the cool shift **** and pedals. It feels like a sports car, and it looks like one too. The exterior looks alone were enough to make me want this car before I ever sat in it. Price paid for Si: about $22,000.
Test Drive Dealer Experience: Mazda vs. VW
While this section doesn't yet get into the details of the MS3 and GTI, it does help to explain my experience with both Mazda and VW during my test drives. We all know how dealers can be.
As I was driving home I spotted a blue Si at the Nissan dealership. Out of curiosity I called the place from my cell. Because "Mike" didn't know the price off the top of his head, he called me back. "21k for the '06...it's got 4,000 miles on it." I got a great deal on mine, then. A few blocks later I spotted the Fahrenheit Orange GTI at VW, which happened to be the same parking lot as Mazda. I knew I had a field trip ahead of me.
When I pulled into Mazda, I scoped out the MS3s immediately and went over to check the window details, just to catch the attention of a salesperson (uh, test drive, please?). It didn't take but 30 seconds for Henry, a tall, older-looking Russian man to come out and greet me in his thick Russian accent.
"If you know it's why you're here, I don't have to tell you anything about it. Let me go grab the keys."
And that was that. He was extremely friendly and easy to deal with, and we chatted about the RX-8 vs. the Si vs. the MS3 as I drove.
"Personally, I like the RX-8 a bit better," he said when asked which he preferred of the MS3 and RX-8. That's interesting -- I noted it for my next test drive.
After we got back from our ~7 mile drive, he took me into the showroom, showed me some pamphlets and articles, and I was on my way. No hassle at all, and I didn't have to give him any of my information (or a birth certificate) or anything. Great experience overall; he didn't push me, hound me, or bother me. It was just an easy test drive. He ended with "if you change your mind about your car, come in and see me, we'd love to have your car on the lot." I'll bet you would. Mazda sticker price: about $25,500 with a few options (didn't notice a dealer markup line).
Apparently Henry doesn't work directly with the VW dealership located just on the other side of the Mazda parking lot, so I had to drive a half-block across to VW.
I got out and went right for the Fahrenheit. In case you haven't seen one, it's a flashy orange color, it actually looks pretty cool, and the rims and trim get a bit of an upgrade, too. Eight seconds later I was greeted by Dwayne, another older (and short) man wearing an unzipped fleece vest over his white polo shirt. He was no Russian.
Surprisingly, without hesitation I was again offered a test drive, after a few lines about the paddle-shift automatic being better than the 6-speed. Fine, I'll give it a try if it's really "the fastest shifting paddle-tranny in the world."
As we drove I asked Dwayne about the MS3 next door and told him about my impressions of it, and asked him what he thought about the Si. He went on to tell me he wasn't really a Honda guy, and that he was a bit afraid of it because "it's the most recalled car recently." Interesting -- "what kind of recalls?" I asked him. "My friend had an Si and he had to bring it back ten times in two weeks. They ended up giving him the lemon law on it -- they took him out of it." He also told me that anyone who "knew how to drive" a paddle-shifting GTI would be able to beat an Si at the drags. Ok, Dwayne, but I'd give it a try.
When I got out Dwayne asked me how I liked it and emphasized the fact that the paddle-shifting was best once you got used to it. I told him I'd "miss the workout on my clutch muscle, but my finger-muscles would probably appreciate it." Overall another quick, easy, and friendly experience, although I probably only drove 3-4 miles and wasn't really shown the details of the car like I was at Mazda. VW sticker price: about $31,000 (some extras, Fahrenheit #589/1500, $3000 markup).
Test Drive: '07 Mazdaspeed 3 Grand Touring & '07 GTI Fahrenheit
My initial impression of the Mazda's exterior was "looks good...for a Mazda 3." I'm not a big fan of hatchbacks, especially not the 3. This is definitely the best 3 I've seen, but it's still a hatchback, and I still think it's...ugly. The interior was decent. The center console/steering wheel/guages, etc. looked great. Six disc changer? Adjustable-height headlights? Climate control? Sweet. But there was no sunroof (even available as an option!) and the seats were pretty bland considering the type of car this was. It felt "average" to sit in.
When I started driving there were a few things I noticed immediately: the pedals didn't have the same firm, crisp feel as my Si, the steering felt like "cardboard," and the transmission/shifting felt hollow and cheap. It was disappointing for a $25,000 car, especially when compared to the buttery shifting in my Si.
When I finally got the Mazda to a stretch of road where I could open it up, I was appalled by the power. I basically slid my wheels through second gear; the thing wanted to go. While the feel of the ride was much like I'd expect from a Mazda 3, I was intrigued by the amount of torque/power/speed this thing was putting out without breaking a sweat. It's a different feeling than my Honda. When the Si goes fast, you can hear it and feel it. It's a much more visceral experience, albeit slower and less torquey. Fine.
While the thing was ridiculous fast, I certainly wouldn't say it was fun to drive, nor did it bring a smile to my face like the first time I drove an Si. This car felt like a Mazda 3, an econobox that they just threw some huge HP into. Seriously, it just didn't feel good to me, despite the excellent fit and finish. Try shifting in one of these things -- try turning the wheel in one of these things -- you'll see what I mean. My Civic, aside from the easily-blemishing door-plastic, doesn't feel cheap to me at all.
The Fahrenheit, on the other hand, looked more solid, inside and out. Painted brake calipers, ridiculously sexy interior lighting, solid-feeling paddle-shifters, nice interior, center console, and seating position all felt nicer than the Mazda and mostly nicer and more expensive than the Si. And this thing didn't have any stupid plaid on the seats, either. While my interior tour was not nearly as detailed (read: non-existent) as with the MS3, I was more excited to drive this thing once I got in it.
And it was an exciting car to drive. While I absolutely would miss the clutch/work it takes to drive a manual, it was a fun and interesting change to try these paddle-shifters. Dwayne kept encouraging me to "keep the gas down firmly while you shift up" and he was right. You could floor the thing, shift up, and it felt like absolute butter. Speed-wise? Very on-par with the Si. Much more uneventful, and again, less visceral of a feeling, but quick nonetheless. The steering felt firm, the ride was quieter/more refined/better overall than the MS3, and possibly the Si too if that's what you're into. It had a great feel in the few miles I drove it. It did have that stupid dial you have to turn for your headlights, though, which always bothers me.
The GTI did NOT feel like an econobox with a better engine. It felt refined, firm, COOL, and fun.
Summary: Si vs. MS3 vs. GTI
I like my Si. I do, and I'd buy the Si over the MS3 any day, not because it's faster, or it handles better, or it has more features than the Mazda. It's just FUN. When you go fast it brings a smile to your face, and I've never felt a smoother clutch (except on my Lambo).
The GTI, on the other hand, is a car I'd easily consider buying. But NOT at 31k. Are you smoking crack? If the thing cost 25, I MIGHT have considered dumping the extra 3 grand into it, but even then it's a stretch. It's a cool car, but in no way, shape, or form is it worth 9k over my Si. If they were the same price, I might say I'd take the GTI, but it's still a matter of preference. And finally: I like the way the Si looks better. Plus, we all know there's nothing like the feeling of i-vtec engaging: it's a naturally aspirated wonder.
First place: Honda Si
Second place: VW Fahrenheit (only because of price)
Third place: MS3
Modified by L-Dawg at 9:04 PM 3/26/2007
Modified by L-Dawg at 10:30 PM 3/26/2007
Baseline: My 2007 Si
I'll start by saying that I already own an '07 Si with a TWM short-shifter/bushings, 35% tint, and WeatherTech FloorLiners. No performance mods yet, but the perhaps the short shifter will influence my views on the other cars later on. I enjoy the Si specifically because there's nothing like it -- I enjoy the high-revving, turbo-like i-vtec action, and it feels like a sports car. It doesn't feel like a Civic. If you owned a "normal" DX/LX/EX Civic, you could peek inside someone's Si and be envious of the cool looking Si-emblazoned seats, black mesh/suede-like interior, and the cool shift **** and pedals. It feels like a sports car, and it looks like one too. The exterior looks alone were enough to make me want this car before I ever sat in it. Price paid for Si: about $22,000.
Test Drive Dealer Experience: Mazda vs. VW
While this section doesn't yet get into the details of the MS3 and GTI, it does help to explain my experience with both Mazda and VW during my test drives. We all know how dealers can be.
As I was driving home I spotted a blue Si at the Nissan dealership. Out of curiosity I called the place from my cell. Because "Mike" didn't know the price off the top of his head, he called me back. "21k for the '06...it's got 4,000 miles on it." I got a great deal on mine, then. A few blocks later I spotted the Fahrenheit Orange GTI at VW, which happened to be the same parking lot as Mazda. I knew I had a field trip ahead of me.
When I pulled into Mazda, I scoped out the MS3s immediately and went over to check the window details, just to catch the attention of a salesperson (uh, test drive, please?). It didn't take but 30 seconds for Henry, a tall, older-looking Russian man to come out and greet me in his thick Russian accent.
"If you know it's why you're here, I don't have to tell you anything about it. Let me go grab the keys."
And that was that. He was extremely friendly and easy to deal with, and we chatted about the RX-8 vs. the Si vs. the MS3 as I drove.
"Personally, I like the RX-8 a bit better," he said when asked which he preferred of the MS3 and RX-8. That's interesting -- I noted it for my next test drive.
After we got back from our ~7 mile drive, he took me into the showroom, showed me some pamphlets and articles, and I was on my way. No hassle at all, and I didn't have to give him any of my information (or a birth certificate) or anything. Great experience overall; he didn't push me, hound me, or bother me. It was just an easy test drive. He ended with "if you change your mind about your car, come in and see me, we'd love to have your car on the lot." I'll bet you would. Mazda sticker price: about $25,500 with a few options (didn't notice a dealer markup line).
Apparently Henry doesn't work directly with the VW dealership located just on the other side of the Mazda parking lot, so I had to drive a half-block across to VW.
I got out and went right for the Fahrenheit. In case you haven't seen one, it's a flashy orange color, it actually looks pretty cool, and the rims and trim get a bit of an upgrade, too. Eight seconds later I was greeted by Dwayne, another older (and short) man wearing an unzipped fleece vest over his white polo shirt. He was no Russian.
Surprisingly, without hesitation I was again offered a test drive, after a few lines about the paddle-shift automatic being better than the 6-speed. Fine, I'll give it a try if it's really "the fastest shifting paddle-tranny in the world."
As we drove I asked Dwayne about the MS3 next door and told him about my impressions of it, and asked him what he thought about the Si. He went on to tell me he wasn't really a Honda guy, and that he was a bit afraid of it because "it's the most recalled car recently." Interesting -- "what kind of recalls?" I asked him. "My friend had an Si and he had to bring it back ten times in two weeks. They ended up giving him the lemon law on it -- they took him out of it." He also told me that anyone who "knew how to drive" a paddle-shifting GTI would be able to beat an Si at the drags. Ok, Dwayne, but I'd give it a try.
When I got out Dwayne asked me how I liked it and emphasized the fact that the paddle-shifting was best once you got used to it. I told him I'd "miss the workout on my clutch muscle, but my finger-muscles would probably appreciate it." Overall another quick, easy, and friendly experience, although I probably only drove 3-4 miles and wasn't really shown the details of the car like I was at Mazda. VW sticker price: about $31,000 (some extras, Fahrenheit #589/1500, $3000 markup).
Test Drive: '07 Mazdaspeed 3 Grand Touring & '07 GTI Fahrenheit
My initial impression of the Mazda's exterior was "looks good...for a Mazda 3." I'm not a big fan of hatchbacks, especially not the 3. This is definitely the best 3 I've seen, but it's still a hatchback, and I still think it's...ugly. The interior was decent. The center console/steering wheel/guages, etc. looked great. Six disc changer? Adjustable-height headlights? Climate control? Sweet. But there was no sunroof (even available as an option!) and the seats were pretty bland considering the type of car this was. It felt "average" to sit in.
When I started driving there were a few things I noticed immediately: the pedals didn't have the same firm, crisp feel as my Si, the steering felt like "cardboard," and the transmission/shifting felt hollow and cheap. It was disappointing for a $25,000 car, especially when compared to the buttery shifting in my Si.
When I finally got the Mazda to a stretch of road where I could open it up, I was appalled by the power. I basically slid my wheels through second gear; the thing wanted to go. While the feel of the ride was much like I'd expect from a Mazda 3, I was intrigued by the amount of torque/power/speed this thing was putting out without breaking a sweat. It's a different feeling than my Honda. When the Si goes fast, you can hear it and feel it. It's a much more visceral experience, albeit slower and less torquey. Fine.
While the thing was ridiculous fast, I certainly wouldn't say it was fun to drive, nor did it bring a smile to my face like the first time I drove an Si. This car felt like a Mazda 3, an econobox that they just threw some huge HP into. Seriously, it just didn't feel good to me, despite the excellent fit and finish. Try shifting in one of these things -- try turning the wheel in one of these things -- you'll see what I mean. My Civic, aside from the easily-blemishing door-plastic, doesn't feel cheap to me at all.
The Fahrenheit, on the other hand, looked more solid, inside and out. Painted brake calipers, ridiculously sexy interior lighting, solid-feeling paddle-shifters, nice interior, center console, and seating position all felt nicer than the Mazda and mostly nicer and more expensive than the Si. And this thing didn't have any stupid plaid on the seats, either. While my interior tour was not nearly as detailed (read: non-existent) as with the MS3, I was more excited to drive this thing once I got in it.
And it was an exciting car to drive. While I absolutely would miss the clutch/work it takes to drive a manual, it was a fun and interesting change to try these paddle-shifters. Dwayne kept encouraging me to "keep the gas down firmly while you shift up" and he was right. You could floor the thing, shift up, and it felt like absolute butter. Speed-wise? Very on-par with the Si. Much more uneventful, and again, less visceral of a feeling, but quick nonetheless. The steering felt firm, the ride was quieter/more refined/better overall than the MS3, and possibly the Si too if that's what you're into. It had a great feel in the few miles I drove it. It did have that stupid dial you have to turn for your headlights, though, which always bothers me.
The GTI did NOT feel like an econobox with a better engine. It felt refined, firm, COOL, and fun.
Summary: Si vs. MS3 vs. GTI
I like my Si. I do, and I'd buy the Si over the MS3 any day, not because it's faster, or it handles better, or it has more features than the Mazda. It's just FUN. When you go fast it brings a smile to your face, and I've never felt a smoother clutch (except on my Lambo).
The GTI, on the other hand, is a car I'd easily consider buying. But NOT at 31k. Are you smoking crack? If the thing cost 25, I MIGHT have considered dumping the extra 3 grand into it, but even then it's a stretch. It's a cool car, but in no way, shape, or form is it worth 9k over my Si. If they were the same price, I might say I'd take the GTI, but it's still a matter of preference. And finally: I like the way the Si looks better. Plus, we all know there's nothing like the feeling of i-vtec engaging: it's a naturally aspirated wonder.
First place: Honda Si
Second place: VW Fahrenheit (only because of price)
Third place: MS3
Modified by L-Dawg at 9:04 PM 3/26/2007
Modified by L-Dawg at 10:30 PM 3/26/2007
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: san jose, ca, us
thanks for an awesome review! i have been meaning to go test drive an ms3 now for awhile...i saw a fahrenheit gti in sf the other day and i dig it. thought it looked really good and loved the color. but not a fan of the new gti
again thanks for taking the time on the writeup
again thanks for taking the time on the writeup
Junior Member
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From: Longmeadow, Ma, USA
Re: Review: Civic Si vs. Mazdaspeed 3 vs. GTI Fahrenheit (L-Dawg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by L-Dawg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and I've never felt a smoother clutch (except on my Lambo).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
....your what??
and I've never felt a smoother clutch (except on my Lambo).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
....your what??
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 219
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From: Kansas City, KS, USA
plus I've read that people have been having big problems with the new VW's. Makes ya think.
A buddy I work with just got a Mazdaspeed 3 hatch. Once he gets better at driving stick (he's rookie!), I'll run him to see what happens.
A buddy I work with just got a Mazdaspeed 3 hatch. Once he gets better at driving stick (he's rookie!), I'll run him to see what happens.
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From: Hudsonville, MI
I really like the GTi, but it is a VW, and I have owned balsa wood airplanes that were less fragile than VWs. That said, great writeup, and good impressions, they closely mirror my own (although I got to take the GTi on a long test drive without an annoying salesperson because my friend works at the dealership).
Jon
Jon
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Joined: Apr 2001
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From: NYC
Re: (HondaF1Fanatic)
Although I can appreciate your honest write up from your point of view.
From a performance standpoint, the GTI and SI are toys compared to the MS3. Check out the Mazdaspeed websites (protege garage, msprotege.com, etc.) and you'll see that the mazdaspeed three makes helacious gains with just bolt ons (54whp/60wtq with Mazdaspeed CAI/cat-back, and, intercooler core upgrade (stock location).
To the point that $1500 in bolt ons puts one dead square in EVO/STI territory.
Obviously, you can chip the GTI and hondata the SI to level the playing field a little, but the MS3 is still faster.
From a performance standpoint, the GTI and SI are toys compared to the MS3. Check out the Mazdaspeed websites (protege garage, msprotege.com, etc.) and you'll see that the mazdaspeed three makes helacious gains with just bolt ons (54whp/60wtq with Mazdaspeed CAI/cat-back, and, intercooler core upgrade (stock location).
To the point that $1500 in bolt ons puts one dead square in EVO/STI territory.
Obviously, you can chip the GTI and hondata the SI to level the playing field a little, but the MS3 is still faster.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Beaverton, Or, USA
Re: (H-PIMP)
Absolutely agree...the MS3 was CLEARLY much faster than the other two. That doesn't mean it didn't feel sort of "cheap" while driving, though. Good engine alone doesn't make a car feel great 
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From: Wicked Fah North, Maine, United States
Re: (L-Dawg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by L-Dawg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Good engine alone doesn't make a car feel great </TD></TR></TABLE>
When you said that.. All I could think of was a hatch, with like a kswap, and no other mods -_-.
</TD></TR></TABLE>When you said that.. All I could think of was a hatch, with like a kswap, and no other mods -_-.
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From: Pinole, CA, United States
Re: (HondaF1Fanatic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaF1Fanatic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I really like the GTi, but it is a VW, and I have owned balsa wood airplanes that were less fragile than VWs. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Hilarious.
Great write-up. I test drove the Mazda and I completely agree. The Si is just such a much more fun car to drive. I just went from Nor-Cal to So-Cal in it and it made the drive seen like nothing.
for the Si
Hilarious.
Great write-up. I test drove the Mazda and I completely agree. The Si is just such a much more fun car to drive. I just went from Nor-Cal to So-Cal in it and it made the drive seen like nothing.
for the Si
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From: Hudsonville, MI
Re: (H-PIMP)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Although I can appreciate your honest write up from your point of view.
From a performance standpoint, the GTI and SI are toys compared to the MS3. Check out the Mazdaspeed websites (protege garage, msprotege.com, etc.) and you'll see that the mazdaspeed three makes helacious gains with just bolt ons (54whp/60wtq with Mazdaspeed CAI/cat-back, and, intercooler core upgrade (stock location).
To the point that $1500 in bolt ons puts one dead square in EVO/STI territory.
Obviously, you can chip the GTI and hondata the SI to level the playing field a little, but the MS3 is still faster.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would compare the MS3 to the SRT4 in terms of throwing a monster motor into a slightly unrefined/rough around the edges car, although the MS3 is light years ahead of the Neon in sophistication. In the engine category the SRT4 wins IMO because it doesn't have the limitations of direct injection with our current tuning technology.
Jon
From a performance standpoint, the GTI and SI are toys compared to the MS3. Check out the Mazdaspeed websites (protege garage, msprotege.com, etc.) and you'll see that the mazdaspeed three makes helacious gains with just bolt ons (54whp/60wtq with Mazdaspeed CAI/cat-back, and, intercooler core upgrade (stock location).
To the point that $1500 in bolt ons puts one dead square in EVO/STI territory.
Obviously, you can chip the GTI and hondata the SI to level the playing field a little, but the MS3 is still faster.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would compare the MS3 to the SRT4 in terms of throwing a monster motor into a slightly unrefined/rough around the edges car, although the MS3 is light years ahead of the Neon in sophistication. In the engine category the SRT4 wins IMO because it doesn't have the limitations of direct injection with our current tuning technology.
Jon
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Niceville, FL, USA
Very nice write up man! Yeah from what i've read the new SI definately pulls from a ms3 or even the awd ms6 from a rolling start all the way up. 0-60 both mazdas will pull from an SI, but after the SI hits 3rd it starts pullin on both mazdas... As for the GTI, it looks like an ok car, but the price is so high compared to an SI, and I much prefer the previous gen GTI over the new one anyway... Also after 90 mph the SI starts pulling on the GTI and by 110 mph or so the SI pulls ahead of the GTI. (At least according to M/T or C&D, can't remember which one.) Anyway, check out this link comparing an SI to a ms6...
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=432895
SI FTW BTW!
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=432895
SI FTW BTW!
NO MERCY!
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: San Antonio, TX, U.S.
Re: (H-PIMP)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
To the point that $1500 in bolt ons puts one dead square in EVO/STI territory.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Negative. It may be almost as fast as an Evo or STi.....but it will never handle like one.
AWD > all.
And i'm almost positive the EVO motor can handle alot more power than the MS3 ever could.
To the point that $1500 in bolt ons puts one dead square in EVO/STI territory.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Negative. It may be almost as fast as an Evo or STi.....but it will never handle like one.
AWD > all.
And i'm almost positive the EVO motor can handle alot more power than the MS3 ever could.
Thread Starter
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From: Beaverton, Or, USA
Re: Review: Civic Si vs. Mazdaspeed 3 vs. GTI Fahrenheit (L-Dawg)
By the way, I went back and test drove the rx-8...I don't know what all the hype is about. That thing feels like crap to me.
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From: Charlotte, NC
Thats the exact opinion I have on those cars! I love my SI, but those new GTI have some sexy appeal to them.
Having said that, its always cheaper to hook up a honda than a GTI, you can certainly make an SI hella faster for that price difference!
Having said that, its always cheaper to hook up a honda than a GTI, you can certainly make an SI hella faster for that price difference!
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Re: (ley)
Interesting review. I've had the urge to test drive a few cars lately and the MS3 is definitely on my list. I'm really suprised you didn't think it drove that well. The performance numbers and reviews I've read so far really have nothing but good things to say about it.
The only negative things I've read about the MS3 is the somewhat rubbery feeling shifter and potential for one of the motor mounts to break.
The MS3 looks like a real sleeper to me and I could see myself in one before I'd ever consider an SRT4.
I've driven 06 and 07 Si's (2 dr only) and I really do like the car. The GTi interests me, but you have to really pay for the extra options. It seems like there aren't nearly enough standard options on them.
The only negative things I've read about the MS3 is the somewhat rubbery feeling shifter and potential for one of the motor mounts to break.
The MS3 looks like a real sleeper to me and I could see myself in one before I'd ever consider an SRT4.
I've driven 06 and 07 Si's (2 dr only) and I really do like the car. The GTi interests me, but you have to really pay for the extra options. It seems like there aren't nearly enough standard options on them.
