So I finally got my heim joint from speedway. Went with a 5/8" joint.

Anyways, Im building my own bars for my EF. Solid mount on the lower control arm (no heim) and need to cut my new radius rod to length, weld on a nut, then thread my heim into it.

I dont know exactly how much "pull/push" I should have

Ive have my crossmember off for a good while now. Im curious how these bars are adjusted and setup. S

Should I build the bar so that the heim can PULL the lower control arms towards the front of the car the entire length of the thread on the heim. Or do I have to anything to determind where the LCA will be?

Thanks guys

 

get the car aligned after you build the traction bars.

 

I cant comment on your specific question, as I dont do much Honda stuff, however, I defenitely would discourage the use of just a standard nut being welded to the end of the tubing. You need to use DOM tubing and have i t tapped with threads, or buy tube adapters, that are basically a chunk of steel machine that slip inside the tubing, and have threads in the middle of them. Google "tube adapter" and youll find them. Shouldnt be more than $8 or so each, but defenitely worth it.
Kyle

 

Well I dfinetely went overkill on the tubing itself, grabbed it form work, some nice thick wall stuff.

I did just weld a nut onto the end of the rod though, all the way around, seemed like a got good penentration but I dont really know


Ive seen others do it that way, should be ok right?

 

I commend you on your persuasiveness.

With that said, you should know exactly the responses your going to get. It was only like 2 months ago that all the knowledged members gave you exact recommendations for how you should properly build your support member. Before you finish this build, I suggest you buy some chassis/suspension design books that can be found on Amazon. There will be some good information on how to properly build suspension components.

Like Kyle said, they make tube adapters specifically for adding a threaded end to tubes when you choose not to tap it yourself. The problem with a nut is the length of the thread compared to a tube nut. They don't make tube nuts for no reason ya know

Please stay out of the state of Iowa when driving this car and i'll consider myself a bit safer.

 

well your setup will be a PITA to adjust since you only have 1 Heim per radius rod.

the design is to run with two heim, one with straight tread the other with inverted tread patern, that make for : when you are screwing the rod in one way either side of the rod will pull or push on the LCA, making for quick adjustment.

the other down side of your setup will be non adjustability when installed on the car since the radius rod can't turn on itself. so you will have to take mesurement, but the only great effect you will notice after puting them in, will be no more wheel hop due to solid bushing design, although, you will not have the great traction provided by the pull effect on the LCA, unless you screw the heim tight and use a few friend's to pull the front hub to the front of the car while you are bolting up the heim to the front bar...

hope this help, I would really run a two heim joint combination on the radius rod, a LOT easier to setup and more versatile.

BTW : Tube adapter are the ****, a bolt welded to a tube, will not be stronger enough to hold the load, , since you are welding on the lip of nut.

I would deffinatly recomend limitation strap that will retain your rod to fall heim joint side on the ground while driving, this would catapult your car forward, breaking LCA and probably Ruining the car straight up...

jp

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andy R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please stay out of the state of Iowa when driving this car and i'll consider myself a bit safer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Too bad hes in my neck of the woods

 

I get that its not the easiest thing to adjust, but there are a few big companies with a solid mount at the LCA and only one heim in the front.

I went with it because I had a chat with a hotrod enth. and he talked me into it

I did just install the radius rod on the car though and its actually easy to adjust, you just loosen the radius bolts and the rod can drop down at the front, make your adjustment and it bolts back up in 2min

I dont know much about the strength of welding the nut onto the end, but Ive seen 2 setups on here today alone that have it that way. Knowone seemed to have any problems or speak of any

About the pull effect of the bars, yes I plan on pulling the tire forward a tad and tightenning the rod at that point to achieve it

The bars were built on a budget, for a cheap car. Some things arent nessecary, but I do believe it is safe.

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1798637



Theres the setup that I figured I would just weld nuts onto the end of the rods with. Hes had no problems, and the cars new owner has no problems either

 

oil leakeage....

 

Please don't just weld nuts onto the pipe man. Unless your a certified welder, You'll need tube inserts, or threaded pipe. A weld like that is structural, and if it fails, could very well kill you, or someone else.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostwerks.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please don't just weld nuts onto the pipe man. Unless your a certified welder, You'll need tube inserts, or threaded pipe. A weld like that is structural, and if it fails, could very well kill you, or someone else. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes its structual weld...but will it kill him...i doubt it...if it breaks worst case the bar drops and trys to catapult his whip....in which case im sure if it did shear the other would also....and if it does break...what is he gonna get a car slighty out of alignment on one side...be nothing worst than a honda boating w/ a open diff

i do agree tho pipe inserts will get the job done much cleaner and safer

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PINKS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I dont know much about the strength of welding the nut onto the end, but Ive seen 2 setups on here today alone that have it that way. Knowone seemed to have any problems or speak of any
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just because other people do it doesn't make it right or safe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yes its structual weld...but will it kill him...i doubt it...if it breaks worst case the bar drops and trys to catapult his whip....in which case im sure if it did shear the other would also....and if it does break...what is he gonna get a car slighty out of alignment on one side...be nothing worst than a honda boating w/ a open diff

i do agree tho pipe inserts will get the job done much cleaner and safer</TD></TR></TABLE>

It doesn't take much to throw a light car out of control at speed. Even the smallest amount of deflection in the radius arm setup can make the car handle erratic. I know from first hand experience with my L-con bars.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostwerks.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It doesn't take much to throw a light car out of control at speed. Even the smallest amount of deflection in the radius arm setup can make the car handle erratic. I know from first hand experience with my L-con bars. </TD></TR></TABLE>

ok i see your point...but in that case...how would the radius arm be effected if the connection was to break? im not follwing you here...

and also the deflection in the radius arms is already present on cars w/o them...so how do they get by? I could see in a case where one broke...and you were on it....and it caused you to almost torque steer like an open diff from the deflections not canceling eachother out

 

I can't find the link, but in the EF forum there were a few cars that snapped the radius rods on an aftermarket kit and completely trashed their front end. The tire was up in the fender, subframe bent... Without the radius rod there, the only keeping the entire wheel assembly from moving forward/backward is the bracket/bolt of the lower control arm. Put some force on that while breaking the radius rod at speeds over 40mph, its going to bend that bracket as well as the upper shock hat mount and UCA.

How exactly are you going to come to a controlled stop with this happening?

If you want to practice your welding skills on something, build a battery box or cup holder. Don't go risking the life of innocent people. I completely understand the satisfaction of doing something yourself and saving a few $$, but you have to know when you are in over your head and better off forking the money out of something thats safe.

I'm not saying this can't be done as a DIY, but based on the approach you are taking and your experience with welding/fab, I would suggest you go with the safe approach.

 

I may just ground down the welds and put a nice slot in there and weld them with a lot more amps to ensure a great penetration, but when searching just now I seen 3 people with this setup

Also, to the guy not knowing the effects of a broken radius rod, on an EF, I believe this is the only piece holding the LCA in place, its a main point in the suspension on EF's, a lot more important than on DC/EG/EK

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andy R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can't find the link, but in the EF forum there were a few cars that snapped the radius rods on an aftermarket kit and completely trashed their front end. The tire was up in the fender, subframe bent... Without the radius rod there, the only keeping the entire wheel assembly from moving forward/backward is the bracket/bolt of the lower control arm. Put some force on that while breaking the radius rod at speeds over 40mph, its going to bend that bracket as well as the upper shock hat mount and UCA.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

your forgetibng tho that is a car that already had traction bars...this one didnt...so shouldnt it ber able to function in its stock form

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ok i see your point...but in that case...how would the radius arm be effected if the connection was to break? im not follwing you here...

and also the deflection in the radius arms is already present on cars w/o them...so how do they get by? I could see in a case where one broke...and you were on it....and it caused you to almost torque steer like an open diff from the deflections not canceling eachother out</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that first statement...but If the radius arm breaks, the entire front suspension is entirely useless. Just like Andy mentioned, very substantial damage can result. There is a difference between the slight deflection from stock rubber bushings VS not having a radius link entirely. You can take my word for it, or go try driving down your block without the bar's (stock or aftermarket) connected.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

your forgetibng tho that is a car that already had traction bars...this one didnt...so shouldnt it ber able to function in its stock form</TD></TR></TABLE>

That makes no sense there man. The only point of the traction bars is to reduce the small deflection in the factory radius arm setup.

The whole point of my posts (and other's) is that this is just too much of a saftey issue, especially with someone who doesn't have all that much experience with welding. The stress a radius arm sees under heavy acceleration, and braking is going to put any traction bar/radius arm to the test. Weir's thread is a testiment that the radius arm setup sees a very high amount of stress, and this shouldn't be try'd by some old joe with a $10 flux core welder.

 

The bar wasnt fluxcored, it was migged on the max heat setting, got a great bead

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PINKS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The bar wasnt fluxcored, it was migged on the max heat setting, got a great bead</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pics? A "great bead" Doesn't mean that it's strong.

 

i'll take a pic of the rewelded radius rod bar, i think it should work great now, atleast i wont be worried about it