Last year I completely rebuilt the entire suspension and brake-system of my 1994 Accord, and I mean I replaced every single part. I am restoring the car for street/freeway use, not for racing, and not grossly modifying the car as a go. I have owned the car since new- it's a part of me.

I don't give a rat's *** about "dragstrip performance"- the car has always been a daily-driver and is being kept near-stock for investment purposes (I am 47 and know how to restore cars as "collectors" cars to maintain maximum future value).

I used Tokiko HP struts with ES bushings throughout, and mostly stock brake-parts. The car only lowered about 1", perfect for street/freeway. Don't like it? Tough ****. I designed the brakes/suspension to perform and last, period. I could care less about some 'tuner' car in a magazine some guy dropped $40,000 into.

I included this info to stress how I restored the systems a notch above stock for performance, but kept on a reasonable budget. The brakes and suspension handle better than when the car was new, and will hold up for 10+ more years.

I need to pull the head and go through it this spring. The bottom-end is very tight, and has excellent compression. I already run a good cat-back and intake system. I plan to completely rebuild the head with all new parts (everything), have the head/TB ported, and install a very mild cam. I already have a good machinist lined up.

I need to know if there is a tech on this site I can bounce some tech questions off. Someone who has been working inside the Honda engines for a few years and knows, from experience, what is reasonable, cost-effective, and will LAST. Someone who knows the difference between reality and magazine BS (I really get a kick out of all the BS in the mags- what they don't tell you is the guy spent $40-$50K for his "weekend racer").

I am well past the age of building race-engines and spending every weekend tweaking extreme high-performance parts. I need good input as to parts for the head so I can get a little extra HP for street-use, but with dependability as the most important factor.

I run a business, and do not have time to constantly be working on the car. I rebuild systems, with quality upgrade parts, to last 100K miles. I buy good quality parts, take my time and "do it right". Since I finished the brakes/suspension about a year ago I have had zero problems with those systems, nada. The Bridgestones I had installed have run 10K miles and show almost zero wear. A reasonable rebuild without going nuts, good parts and careful workmanship, dependablity is the outcome.

If you know these engines inside/out and can give me some input/feedback for the head/porting, drop me a line, I'll outline what I have researched to this point.

I really need input as to the cam- I used to build big-blocks, and the parts come right off the shelf. The cam for this head will (unfortunately) have to be ground off a stock cam (F22B2 block). I also could use some input as to how far to go with the head NOW to match the plans I have in 2-3 years for the pistons/crank/rods at the bottom-end, without having to completly redo the head again at that time.

Any serious engine-heads out there who can relate to a high-quality restoration for strictly daily street-use (on a reasonable budget), please, drop me a line, I could use your input. If you're into "juicing till it blows", we're talking about different cars, different points in life. I also have a budget for the entire car, and I've been doing this for a while. If I'd gone nuts with the brakes/suspension I'd already have blown the whole wad.

No, I won't swap the engine- an original block/head with matching numbers brings highest value for resale. Anyone not grasping this simple fact, please, don't respond, the car is a performance daily-driver I plan to have 20 years from now, not totalled and sitting in a junk-yard. Thanks- Wrenchy

 

for what? it cant be worth it...

Whatever floats your boat I guess...

your cam should come from Comp cams and set it in and forget it... it won't be aggresive...(although pointless to not go aggresive on the cam, espically since your going through all the trouble to take it out)

Good luck... maybe in 20 years your car will be worth something....

I'm thinking not...

 

Sounds more like a rant than asking for advice.

Let me ask you, in your 47 years of existence have you ever learned common courtesy? You really come off as quite the *****.

You're probably better off taking your questions over to the all motor or tech forum.


Modified by BlkChryKord at 10:33 AM 3/17/2007

 

Thank God your not my Parent, My dad Builds 1500 hp drag cars...

While your whining about how your spending all this money on a daily driver, why not quit wasting it and drive the car, theres no need to redo the head or even add a cam if your not looking for performance

And maybe the 50k your talking about these guys spending is full blow drag cars for strip only


For 10k You could have done enough performance modifications that you would have been happy with


Also, NO ONE is going to buy a 1994 honda accord for more then 4 grand, no matter what you replaced, its an accord.. there not collectors cars and never will be, when you have a fully restored 67 camaro that you build from the ground up that has matching numbers then youll have a car thats worth somthing.....


Honestly if i were you, and was wasting my time and wasnt listening to anyone, then I would Get an H22 Head, and put that on

Your gonna barley get any performance out of a sohc motor with a cam.... Cat back and intakes dont count

 

Disregard the above people. If they accuse you of coming off as a "*****", then whatever they posted doesn't indicate much better for them. That's why I hardly ever post here, it's just a bunch of flamers. But that's besides the point.

Your best bet for head is to get a cam regrind from Delta Cams (you can google them). It's around $115 total if you send them a core. As for the porting, if the F22B2 head is anything similar to the F22A1 head (I think it is, not sure), then it already flows very well. If anything, I would look up someone local who has a good rep for doing P&P (stay away from the ones that also polish the intake, it causes the fuel to bead up on the walls). Mostly you just need to clean up the casting flash and blend the bowls, and maybe do a taper to increase velocity. Other than that, just rebuild with OEM parts, or check out KMS (again, google is your friend), they should have valve springs/valves for your engine.

Later.

 

Also, if it's the case that the F22B2 head is similar to the F22B1 (SOHC VTEC) rather than the F22A1 head...send it to CHR racing, because that thing flows about as good as molasses. While they are expensive (about $600-800 dollars, I don't know if that's out of your budget or not), they do incredible work.

Later.

 

I was just wondering how you could see to type such a long rant with your head so far up your ***?
Is your neck sore?

 

Thanks for the info. A question I have is whether or not the double-action springs are needed. Most seat at about 95 psi, for 10K-12K rpm use, extreme. I have a line on some 75psi springs, single-action.

I dropped a line to Roy Gude at Gude cams- he recommended for a milder cam-grind to stay with the single-action springs, stating the double-action were a waste of $$ unless extreme rpm use or running juice. Input? (I did plan to use all new brass guides, with new seals, etc.)

Now for the valves. I was looking to go only +0.5 mm solid SS vlaves. I thought this would work well with a mild-lift cam and porting of the TB and head, about what you mentioned. A few different machinists stated they thought I would get longer use from solid SS valves, vs. nitrated, for non-NOX use. Input?

Later, when I build the block, I plan to go forged pistons (JE) designed for about 9.3/1 compression with Oliver rods. Didn't want to push higher using stock injectors and electronics, the research I did indicated the stock computer is good to about 9.5/1.

This is uncharted territory, nobody rebuilds F22B2 blocks. The cam, pistons and rods are all going to have to be custom-made. Think the cam/valve parts will work later with a 9.5/1 compression (stock-bore)?

As for other comments, I just ignore them. Given enough money, anyone can bolt **** onto an engine and get raw HP, at least for a short time. Then "fix, fix, fix, replace---" it never ends, been there, done that.

The real challenge is to design/build a car on a reasonable budget that runs smooth/strong 85-95 mph on the freeway, all day long, and never, ever breaks down. The suspension was designed/built for this, tight as hell but still reasonably smooth for extended freeway driving. Another 10-15% HP and torque would fit the ticket now. Wrenchy

 

Double-action springs are most definitely not needed in this case. If you pushing 9k rpm out of an F20B or a B16 or something, then yes, but you'll never see rpms that high, unless you have intentions of spinning a rod bearing. As the machinists' suggested, I would go with the solid SS valves, and with that extra 0.5mm, you'll definitely have enough material to get an excellent valve seal, even if you have to get multiple valvejobs in the future (doubtful however). In terms of a mild cam, the Delta 260 regrind is mild, shouldn't affect your idle much, if at all, and will give your engine a little extra breathing room at those higher rpms. All of the valvetrain modifications should also get along just fine with custom pistons and rods. Just be sure to compare the lift/duration, and make sure the valve relief pockets on the pistons you order are large enough, so as to avoid valve/piston contact, though I'm sure you already knew this. It sounds to me like you definitely know what you were doing, and in my opinion, it goes along with what Honda does in the first place. Thanks for being one of the few to continue the philosophy, instead of blowing up 4 motors before you get one that works, like the majority of people here.

Later.

 

Different age, different time. I have two teen-age kids, a dog and a mortgage. I don't have time, or money, like I used to to spend every single weekend working on an engine that is so HP it always needs tweaking. I used to do that, but life changes.

I also drive differently than I used to-fast and aggressive still, but not stupid. As you get older you learn how to not attract Johnnie-Law's attention. That's why the car is a sleeper- it looks very good, but does not attract attention.

As for performance, the suspension and brakes are awesome for street/freeway, I got what I designed and built, all bullet-proof parts that should last a long, long time. As I stated, I am aiming for about +35-45 HP when the motor is done, an engine that will run fast on the street and freeway and last a long time.

The block, as is, with the intake/cat-back already runs all day long at 80 mph on the freeway at 3K rpm, nice and smooth, no exaggeration, the suspension and tires are so well balanced out it runs like it's riding on glass and handles unlike anything you've ever driven. And gets 30+ mpg. freeway.

With the head/intake and some headers I should have an 85 MPH cruising speed at about 2800 rpm. The planned pistons/rods are about getting some extra torque off of dead-stops. Not this year for the bottom-end, no time.

This is my "fun-car" for sunshine use- it's been stored all winter, and I drove the X-Terra (lots and lots of snow). A kick in the *** for a daily driver, soon to be even better. If I wanted a 250 HP enginee I'd build it, but I don't run track, and, as I said, I learned long ago very HP goes contrary to dependability. You can have one, but not both, it's just the nature of machinery. Wrenchy

 

Well put! Tell them youngins' how it is!

 

I dont know what you guys are doing, no point in building or re-buliding an f22... you guys are wacked

 

The point? A long lasting, peppy, reliable motor. Duh.
And before you diss on it just because it's an F22...look at Bisi's All Motor F22 Insight running 9's...the F22 has potential, but people are just stuck on the K/H/B series hype...

Later.


Modified by CB7Pirate at 2:52 PM 3/20/2007

 

I bought the car new in '94. Changed the oil to semi-synthetic at about 800 mi, then to full synthetic at 1500, then synthetic regularly. I change out ALL the other fluids every year, keep the car tuned and dial the valves in regularly.

At about 75K I changed the front pads, the rear drum shoes at about 100K. Aside from that, the car has had only two problems in 105K miles- I had to replace the master clutch and brake units. It still has the original clutch-disc. That's it.

I drive the **** out of the car but don't abuse it. The F22 bottom-end is very strong (a good crank and rods). The non-VTEC head is VERY simple to work on, and is also very, very dependable. It could use a mild cam and better quality valves/guides/seals, not the best Honda ever designed.

VTEC is good stuff, period. BUT, as with other Honda systems, nothing lasts forever. Hondas are great cars, but at about 135K-150K miles stuff wears out and breaks, and gets VERY expensive to rebuild.

VTEC systems are complicated, and the electronic parts cost $$$. Ever wonder why so many Hondas in the paper get dumped by the firts owners at about 135-150K miles? And some of the VTEC diagnostics are completely compter driven and cost $$$$ for a tech just to run diagnostics.

A well built SOHC head is very, very simple to work on and diagnose. True, you don't gross the same HP/torque the VTEC gets, but the trade off is bullet-proof simplicity and low maintenance/repair costs.

I pad about $15K (with tax/lic) in 1994, and drove the car for 105K/12+ years with only above noted repairs. Last year I completely went through the suspension/brakes with some mild , bullet-proof upgrades. In the next year I plan to go through the head and bottom-end.

When I am done, I calculate I will have spent about $11K to completely restore the car, including tires/rims/paint/suspension/brakes/headwork/bottom-engine, ect etc.

As an example on the suspension/brakes, when I did the brake/suspension systems I replaced every single part, including most of the smaller bolts/washers/springs. I mean the job was thorough- the brakes/suspension are now set for another 10+ years/100K miles. (every bushing in the frame/all new axles, including a full rebuild of the inner-axle/EVERY suspension arm replaced or rebushed/every bearing replaced/new calipers and rear pistons/new rotors/Russell speed-bleeders/all brake springs new, about 80% of bolts, nuts, washers (anything that showed any rust). The work was very thorough.

After I finish restoration, about all I will have to do in the future is a steering rack, PS pump, alternator, eventually a computer. For most of this I should still be good for another 35-50K miles.

So, when I am done, I have a car I have a total of $25,000 into (new price and full restoration.) I figure I am good for another 100,000 miles. This means I will have driven the car for around $.125/mile. The average car in the U.S. right now runs about $.30-$.35 mile for mechanical before fuel, insurance etc. I figuer I can drive the car for another 12-15 years, than sell it if I want to.

The car originally had about 130HP. With mild upgrades, it is already quick for a small engine, and is very strong at high speeds on the freeway. When I am done with the engine, I will get at least 175HP, easy. At that point, the car will have a good HP/weight ratio compared to most stock small cars.

I don't care about raw, tire burning HP- I don't race circle-track or strip, so I don't need fast 1/4 times. What I do like is kick in the *** daily street performance, that I will have. Raw HP/torque are not really that important on the street/freeway. What is important is the HP/torque be well matched to a well built suspension/clutch/brakes, etc.

Now about dependability. I need a car that starts every single time I turn the key, period, no excuses-ever. I need a car that doesn't ever sit on blocks broken every Sunday morning. I need (want) a car that has a suspension that handles well at 80-100 mph crusing speeds, not raw HP that shakes/shivers all over like a sick dog with the craps.

I don't want a car that bottoms out at 45 in a swale and scrapes or tears out the oil pan and suspension. I want a car that is a kick in the *** to drive on the street/freeway, but it needs to run all the time, not just when it needs another parts because something else broke down. I need a car that has some grunt, but my wife needs to be able to drive it (she's a very good 5sp driver!).

This is entirely a different philosophy for building a car. The purpose is to build the ENTIRE car with good parts, not just dump tons of $$$ into some parts (say struts/lowering, for example) but leaving the rest of the parts on, worn out and causing the car to handle like crap at high speeds. Even Hondas at 75K-100K are "getting worn".

The philosophy is to build the car on a reasonable budget. Ever seen a tuner wreck a car he had $40-$50K into, almost all un-insurable? Or it gets stolen? A really, really screwed up and sad situation.

I saved every single receipt in a file, and the car IS insured for what I have done. BUT, two insurance companies stated they would not have insured the car if it had been juiced, period. The point is the car is even insured against loss- something that I would not have been able to do if I had not done my homework ahead of time.

When done, the car will be reasonably fast, a kick to drive, very dependable, and is even fully insured against being totalled or stolen ( and the ******** tried, 3X, to steal it when we lived inh SoCal! Thank God for good alarms and cutoff switches!) The car will never sit on blocks due to being abused/broken. Isn't the purpose of a car that it runs?

The $1000's I save over time I can spend on my X-Terra. This is no BS. Due to the fact I buy good cars, maintain them to A++, keep them forever and never go completly nuts when I build them, I can afford 3 nice cars. One is my "pimp" ride (nice 2001 Avalon), one gets me around in 12+" of snow (2006 X-Terra), and the Honda is an every day kick in the *** to drive car. If I had sunk $20+K inot the Honda, forget the X-Terra! Think! (It's really nice to get a little bit older and realize you can, through using common-sense, actually be able to afford 3 cars! And only one small car-payment!!)

I think all 3 will run 12-15 years before we replace them. Think- would I be able to do this if I constantly beat the crap out of all 3 cars?

If you want to race, I mean really race, go for it. You will need some serious cash to get started- don't BS me, I used to build some nice engines, and it costs BIG money. You will probably need $20,000 to get started right, and lots and lots of time. But please, don't bolt a nitro kit onto a stock engine and tell me you are a "racer'. You will blow the car the first night you run it hard.

I know I **** off some people. What really pisses off some is they KNOW I am telling the truth. They keep dumping money into some parts of their car, but it still keeps breaking all the time. You CANT have a HP car with all the $$$ inot only one system (say the engine). You will only brak the rest of the car!!

You can have extreme speed and performance, but you will spend big bucks to get it, and it will suck up a LOT of your time.

I help my nephews work on their cars all the time, and I try to get them to think about what they really want to accomplish, and what they can really afford. They are finding out they really can't afford to build "the car in the mag". Wrenchy