Hello everyone. Im pretty new to H-T. I dont know if this topic has been beaten to death already, and if it has i apologize.

::CLIFFS AT BOTTOM::

Anyway. I have a 90 crx si with a sohc zc and $3000* saved up for a swap. Im not sure where i want to go ENGINE wise but i do know i want to do the swap right.(new waterpump, timing belt, exeddy clutch, hoses,LSD, HASport motor mounts, shift linkage and rywire if nessasary ect.) Any help you guys could give tech wise as to the most hassle free swap, opinion wise on the best buy for the price, and any other misc. things i may need to know before doing the swap would be greatly appreciated.
Also I will be keeping the engine n/a and will be using it as a DD and maybe an occasional trip to the track. I will not be paying for laybor.( unless you consider beer a form of currency) And i would like to stay smog legal. After smog i will do I/H/E** (maybe whale *****, toda, rs*r) and more aggressive cams. Things i could easily swap out everytime smog season rolls back around.
As far as horsepower goals go. i would like 200whp or more if possible after smog.(meaning after I/H/E cams+tune) Honestly I dont know if im even being realistic, but i would appriciate any input from hybrid ef owners, Mechanics and tuners. (*$3000 is flexible. Im a tattoo artist so i can save money pretty quickly.)
(**Im waiting untill after smog to do any upgrades in an attemt to help the car pass, and they are not included original $3000 goal)
Please dont just shout out engine names at me without a reason for your opinion. Im aware of the engines available. Im pretty sure think i will be staying B series because of the rediculous cost of a K, the wieght and size of a H, the shittyness of the D , and the relative ease of the swap also.

::cliffs. need help deciding on good base n/a motor for 200+ whp goal for ef with 3k* to spend. B series preffered::

-brandon

 

ever see the omniman dvd? they build a 200whp b16 out of oem parts.. it's kinda cool to see if things are done correctly, that you don't need an outrageous setup.

 

I've heard a lot about that dvd. I read a few of their threads acctually. It seemed very interesting. But a few of the things kinda freaked me out about custum tools and the fact that there's no real evidence that the car survived the work that was done to it over the long term. Also cost is an issuue. Being as I have never seen the video I can't determine how much money they put into it. And I don't want to pay $70 for a video on how to tune a motor I might not use.

 

I know you're set on getting a B-series, but $3000 really won't get you far unless you can score an entire changeover swap for a bargain. I would actually say that you either build your current SOHC ZC or "upgrade" to a DOHC ZC and build that. You will get much more opportunity to build and mod than you would after purchasing/swapping a B-series. Just my $.02

 

Thanks wiZCo ive read alot of your posts on here and you seem to know alot. Acctually i was hoping people like you would respond to this because you seem to know alot about efs. but every motor on hmotorsonline is about 3 thousand except the b16b(ek type R) and the b18c(Integra type R). Like i said befor i dont want to dump 3 thousand in a zc to get 200 whp. When i can but a motor that is 160~170~180 and slap on I/H/E cams and tune to more for less.
Also i think its funny how people on H-T ask hypothetical questions about what they should do with thier cars with no intention on doing it and get a million responses. And i only get 2 and im serious

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wiZCo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would actually say that you either build your current SOHC ZC or "upgrade" to a DOHC ZC and build that. You will get much more opportunity to build and mod than you would after purchasing/swapping a B-series. Just my $.02</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have money to modify. i just need opinions on what motor to start with. the $3000 is for engine alone, not mods. Should i say expletive it and just get the B-Series with the most stock hp? B18C 94-97 GSR complete changeover? $3149 hmotorsonline.

 

anyoneany experience with this engine that would like to help? advice on swap? anything that would make my life a lil easeir?

 

Anything?...A link. I visited hasport and a few other websites that have warned against a B18c swap because of the modifications needed. But i have a jdm front end installed already so hood clearance shouldnt be an issue.

Has anyone on H-T done this swap? Is a B18c+EF so rare? should i just go b16a sir1 or 2? Everyone and their mom seems to have done this one before. so finding writeups and walktroughs was pretty easy. But nothing for a b18c.

Any help would be greatly appreciated H-T!

HEEEEEELP

 

B18c is basicly the same swap. just a little taller and a 12 or something foot lbs more torque. some of the b18c have a dual plane intake manifold that needs a few more wires than a b16 needs run to the ecu if you use it.

thought about a b20z bottom end with a b16 head? sometimes the importer here has b20b s for 400 bucks. and im sure you could find a head on here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChickenH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B18c is basicly the same swap. just a little taller and a 12 or something foot lbs more torque. some of the b18c have a dual plane intake manifold that needs a few more wires than a b16 needs run to the ecu if you use it.

thought about a b20z bottom end with a b16 head? sometimes the importer here has b20b s for 400 bucks. and im sure you could find a head on here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was thinking the same. I'd go either B18B or B20 with a B16 head. More economical than a B18C and will give a little better potential down the line.

 

forget your crx, spend cash on my crx.

click link in sig to sponsor me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STREETWERKZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">forget your crx, spend cash on my crx.

click link in sig to sponsor me. </TD></TR></TABLE>
x2 but for my ef sedan is sig. haha

no but for real if i had $3k to spend on a swap i would look around for a built ls bottem end and find me a b16 head for it a tranny. then swap me in a built ls/vtec and then boost it near 350whp.
or if just looking for a nice swap i would go with the b16 of hmo for like 1500 and swap it in and boost it around 10psi stock motor with the $3k. have it tuned and keep on saving.

 

Well...If you dont mind some fab work and wiring. You can get an H22 for like 1700.00 from Hmotors then get everything else from hasport and BAM!! You've got crazy power at your fingertips. I'm gonna do it when it's time to swap my B16A out.

Dont let people fool you about the weight of that engine. I read a very thorough breakdown that weighed every individual part compared to a B16 and they are almost exact after it's all together. Plus the H22 cylinders are already sleeved. You have tons of potential there!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bejita &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Dont let people fool you about the weight of that engine. I read a very thorough breakdown that weighed every individual part compared to a B16 and they are almost exact after it's all together. Plus the H22 cylinders are already sleeved. You have tons of potential there!</TD></TR></TABLE>

*ahem* Not true. An H22 has to be sleeved before any aftermarket pistons go in due to their FRM sleeves.

 

True...But it is sleeved....It''ll handle some pretty good power upgrades just the way it is stock.

 

And to add to that...You get over 200hp stock!!! Thats strong

 

save the cash for a better car.
or
keep saving and buy a better car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bejita &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">True...But it is sleeved....It''ll handle some pretty good power upgrades just the way it is stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no aftermarket piston can be used with it as far as i know. It's a stout motor depending on your goals but it's just something to keep in mind.

It would probably be the easiest route to 200hp n/a for that budget though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bejita &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well...If you dont mind some fab work and wiring. You can get an H22 for like 1700.00 from Hmotors then get everything else from hasport and BAM!! You've got crazy power at your fingertips. I'm gonna do it when it's time to swap my B16A out.

Dont let people fool you about the weight of that engine. I read a very thorough breakdown that weighed every individual part compared to a B16 and they are almost exact after it's all together. Plus the H22 cylinders are already sleeved. You have tons of potential there!</TD></TR></TABLE>

After seeing that you've got $3K just to spend on buying the engine, I definitely reccommend the H22 swap, like Bejita said it'll be the best bang for your buck power-wise. Then you can do some N/A building, maybe get her up to 225-250 BHP.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brandoom &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anything?...A link. I visited hasport and a few other websites that have warned against a B18c swap because of the modifications needed. But i have a jdm front end installed already so hood clearance shouldnt be an issue.

Has anyone on H-T done this swap? Is a B18c+EF so rare? should i just go b16a sir1 or 2? Everyone and their mom seems to have done this one before. so finding writeups and walktroughs was pretty easy. But nothing for a b18c.

Any help would be greatly appreciated H-T!

HEEEEEELP</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have just finished my 89 hatch B-18C Type R swap and there are a few things I would do different.
Overall I like the power and the close ratio tranny, but having said that, I would have swapped the internals of the hydro tranny into a YS1 tranny case so as not to have to mess with the cable hydro BS attachment. However, Innovative has a cable over hydraulic setup now that I will probably either buy or ripoff their idea .

I used the wiring from my OBD2 18C, but I like not using non native wiring and connectors in the engine-ECU interface.

Most everything else works like the B16 swaps.

I'll post my complete write up after all the details are done.

 

it's not really "sleeved". it's just a closed deck design with a very thin cylinder liner made from localized fibrous matrix, that is not made of IRON like a typical cylinder Sleeve.

Mahle makes a piston for the H22 that doesn't require sleeving

"Honda uses a localized fibrous matrix (FRM) to line the H22 cylinder bore. Up until now, no lightweight forged piston was available for the H22 standard bore, and while sleeves are an option they are expensive and a hit or miss installation at best. MAHLE Motorsport, the world’s piston technology leader, has the answer with its H22 GoldSeries Pistons; the only forged aluminum pistons for the H22 that do not require cylinder sleeves.

MAHLE Motorsport works this magic by coating the piston skirts with an exclusive compound that effectively wears like cast iron, protecting the piston and the cylinder from wear. MAHLE’s race proven pistons are forged from low-expansion 4032 aluminum alloy and feature ultra flat 1.2, 1.2 and 2.8mm ring grooves. CNC machined to the tightest tolerances and de-burred at the factory, these pistons are ready to drop-in right out of the box. H22 GoldSeries Pistons come complete with high-grade German steel pins and F1 inspired round wire locks."




Modified by hybridmoments at 3:51 PM 3/16/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wiZCo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After seeing that you've got $3K just to spend on buying the engine, I definitely reccommend the H22 swap, like Bejita said it'll be the best bang for your buck power-wise. Then you can do some N/A building, maybe get her up to 225-250 BHP.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have fun catching traction with that ....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChickenH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B18c is basicly the same swap. just a little taller and a 12 or something foot lbs more torque. some of the b18c have a dual plane intake manifold that needs a few more wires than a b16 needs run to the ecu if you use it.

thought about a b20z bottom end with a b16 head? sometimes the importer here has b20b s for 400 bucks. and im sure you could find a head on here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Frankenstien motors wont cant be bar'd. I want to stay mostly legal. so if i get rolled at a meet or just driving like a *******, i can change out some of the boltons and be good to go. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bejita &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well...If you dont mind some fab work and wiring. You can get an H22 for like 1700.00 from Hmotors then get everything else from hasport and BAM!! You've got crazy power at your fingertips. I'm gonna do it when it's time to swap my B16A out.

Dont let people fool you about the weight of that engine. I read a very thorough breakdown that weighed every individual part compared to a B16 and they are almost exact after it's all together. Plus the H22 cylinders are already sleeved. You have tons of potential there!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok i could be a dick and say i dont want a h22 in my crx because blah blah blah, but in all honesty i dont think im competent enough to swap this ****. and the person who will be helping me is pretty much doing it for free so.. i dont want to be an ******* and and tell him i want to put in the H. I wanted something more than a B16 but not as nuckin futs as the H22 and thats how I came to want the B18c but im worried about clearance and the hydro to cable transmogrifier. (or whatever)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Got_soy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">save the cash for a better car.
or
keep saving and buy a better car</TD></TR></TABLE>

There arent any


Modified by brandoom at 6:38 PM 3/16/2007

 

Oh yea im kinda new to this, so if anyone could tell me how to post up pictures i will post some flix of my Si. She has a few dings,some dents, a lil rust, a lazy front end and she was painted by maaco (car orange engine bay and hatch jamb red)

 

Ok well i went out out and bought a 260 pc craftsman mechanics toolset and a heavy duty jack and jackstands last night. along with some other random stuff. hmotors is within driving distance from my house so i will probably borrow a friends truck to pick up the motor.
A few more questions. Hmotors charges $400 for a HASport hydro to cable flux capacitor. Should i just take the hydro tranny and trade it to some one for a cable B series tranny to save money, or just use the cable to hydro convertometer?
Imaginary expenses so far...
Complete motor ...................................$3149
Hasport High HP mount kit.......................$300
Exeddy Stage1 Organic clutch..................$290
Light Wieght Flywheel..............................$242
Rywire 88-91 crx si to B18c Harness.........$190
Timing belt.....................................About $50
Not sure witch water pumt to order
they range from...............$50 to..............$120
Misc. Hoses and gaskets...........................$200

Total so far and im sure im missing alot...$4541 BOOYAKASHA!

I will probably be replacing the cat to a fresh oem one, and slapping on the RS*R catback while im down there seeing as how it wont effect smog.

If anyone can think of anything im missing please chime in. I think i need a usdm ecu to pass smog. But i will cross that bridge when i get to it.

Should i tune?