i saw this on another strictly car audio website.
simply post the equipment your stereo consists of, any special features about it, i.e. installation, special equipment, favorite thing about it.. and rate the other systems posted by other people.


Here is mine:

Car- 1995 Acura Integra LS 2 door hatchback.

Headunit- Pioneer Premier P-680MP
Front Speakers- JL XR653CS 3-way components
Front Speaker Amplifier- JL Slash Series 300/4
Subwoofer- JL 12W6v2-D4 in a sealed box built to JL spec out of 3/4 MDF
Subwoofer Amplifier- JL Slash Series 500/1 class d monoblock w/ remote bassknob
Wiring- Stinger audio interconnects, JL power/ground/remote wire and distribution blocks, stinger 12 gauge speaker wire.
Capacitor- 1 farad

Extras:

-no rear speakers.
-flat eq headunit settings.
-front stage has mid-woofer in doors, midrange and tweeter in q-logic kick panels
-amps mounted for optimal heat dissipation

Plans:

-to dynamat extensively as well as expandable foam
-maybe add an eq?

 

Well peep my sig of two of my whips, I will post the navigator as soon as I get a chance and the shop teg thats forsale. Does it count if you have the stuff and its not in the car. I just started on the navigator and had to postpone it because of sickness

 

Not having speakers in the back creates a "dead spot" (I played around with this in my 95 LS). Why not add some mid bass drivers back there for rear fill?

My old rommate who was an installer at a local shop here for 11 years and also owned an itr was telling me about this integra they built. It was very simple, MB quart Qsc components in the front (6.5"), Qsc woofers in the rear (6.5") factory location, an eclipse 8V deck(not sure which), and I think he said he had an eclipse 10" titanium (don't remember the enclosure type). Of course there was dynamat throughout the car and he they stuffed about 25 bags of polyfill behind each of the rear quarter interior panels on each side. He's won multiple SQL comps with that setup.

IMO, if you're going for SQ or SPL even you should upgrade your HU. The 680 and most of the other pioneer/premier decks don't offer much in the way of SQ (2.2V preouts, 16bit DAC...), and a crappy EQ. I used to have the 6600 in my car, the 16bit pioneers have a distinct sound. If you want to stay with pioneer, the only decks I would buy would be the 880PRS or the pricey, but sweet DEX-P9.

 

my headunit has 4v preouts..

 

A 4 volt preout has no advantage over a 2 volt preout assuming the amplifier is of good quality. And assuming you have no noise on the RCA. If you were running your preouts through a passive crossover then it makes sense to go with a higher output.

The only thing this does is move where the amplification is done.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not having speakers in the back creates a "dead spot" (I played around with this in my 95 LS). Why not add some mid bass drivers back there for rear fill?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Rrriiiggghhtt......

 

An audio engineer(not a recording studio tech, an actual engineer who designed speakers for KEF) of 20yrs helped me tune my car. Those were his words not mine, nevertheless he was right. Having something in the back does make a difference in my car(which is the same as his). Each car/setup is obviously going to be different. By the way that was only my opinion...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSRracing95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my headunit has 4v preouts..</TD></TR></TABLE>

My mistake, I was thinking of the pioneer version - 6800mp.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HxC_TegGirl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">An audio engineer(not a recording studio tech, an actual engineer who designed speakers for KEF) of 20yrs helped me tune my car. Those were his words not mine, nevertheless he was right. Having something in the back does make a difference in my car(which is the same as his). Each car/setup is obviously going to be different. By the way that was only my opinion...</TD></TR></TABLE>

rear speakers are a waste of money and only serve to ruin the sound stage. end of discussion

 

The topic of rear fill is still out for debate. It's really what you prefer. I personally like just having a front stage because it sounds more like a concert. Not everyone wants that.

As far as your setup goes i would say your components could be alot better. Although your choice of amps and subs is right on assuming you dont mind paying what JL charges. Alot of people dont, i actually have a 500/5 and W6v2 sitting around somewhere... i need to find those.

As far as the EQ goes, i would encourage you to play it. Toy with it until you find settings you like, i would imagine its a little lacking in midbass, might tune for that. One thing that would probably help you out quite abit as well would be using some sound deadning on the doors. Will help midbass out alot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sex Cells &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The topic of rear fill is still out for debate. It's really what you prefer. I personally like just having a front stage because it sounds more like a concert. Not everyone wants that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

for anyone who's a serious about sound quality, there is no debate.

 

^^^. I completely agree. It was not until I listened to a car that had a system built for stage & image that I completely understood the whole concept. And it is not easy to achieve proper stage & image, but when you do it is well worth the time, effort and money.

 

Did he mention that he was running an SQ system? Some people aren't worried about a perfect sound stage and and perfect imaging. And if tuned correctly rear fill can bring the sound stage closer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sex Cells &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did he mention that he was running an SQ system? Some people aren't worried about a perfect sound stage and and perfect imaging. And if tuned correctly rear fill can bring the sound stage closer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

closer to what??? and how would you go about setting that up?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And if tuned correctly rear fill can bring the sound stage closer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You know, you're right.. When I go to a concert, I rather enjoy listening to the music coming from behind me... I'm glad they put the lead vocal & triangle player back there.... It makes me feel as though I'm right in the middle of the music....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

closer to what??? and how would you go about setting that up?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the sound stage. and basically it involves fading the **** out of the speakers, using alot of processing in some situations. I've also seen people make efforts to block any direct sound coming from the back.

I have a decent article on the subject that i'm sure i could find if you would like.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You know, you're right.. When I go to a concert, I rather enjoy listening to the music coming from behind me... I'm glad they put the lead vocal & triangle player back there.... It makes me feel as though I'm right in the middle of the music.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

... oh i get it, you must not know how sound in a concert hall reflects off the back to add fill...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sex Cells &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the sound stage. and basically it involves fading the **** out of the speakers, using alot of processing in some situations. I've also seen people make efforts to block any direct sound coming from the back.

I have a decent article on the subject that i'm sure i could find if you would like.

... oh i get it, you must not know how sound in a concert hall reflects off the back to add fill... </TD></TR></TABLE>

sure you can reduce the volume, run a lowpass filter, put a delay and run the rears mono but at that point is it really worth it? sure it may add a very small amount (very very small) of ambience, but the front stage is still the most important thing. adding rear fill setup as i mentioned above wont add anything to your imaging or stage width etc.


PS. I'd hardly call using the fader "tuning" and i'd love to see this article

 

Personally IMO it takes ALOT of money and work to get the "soundstage" right in a car. Even then it still doesn't compare to what I am used to, a home audio setup.

So I go with what sounds good to me in my car. I prefer some rear fill. Midrange I can deal with comming from the rear. Having tweeters back there would just drive me nuts.

 

Hmmm, interesting thread.

Let's ASSUME a true 2 channel SQ car, that is judged objectively in stage width, depth, image placement, and depth to stage - of these, rear fill will help none.

Now, the subjective stuff - tonality, ambience - the only place where rear fill COULD help is ambience. Remember though, ambinece, doesn't mean rear fill - what it means is that a large concert hall sounds like a large concert hall, a small jazz club like a small club - you get the idea. If having rear speakers makes your small jazz club sound like a huge empty room, you have just taken a big step backward.

Now, with that said, there is not a world champion SQ car that I can think of (and I know what's going on in many of them) that uses rear speakers wiht any kind of high frequency in them (let's say above the sub x-over point).

There is a reason for this - getting it right is a pain, it costs you extra power, extra space, and extra processing - that's it. Now, if you look at the real old school cars - like Zaussmer's BMW (had rear speakers with a funky delay setup) and the Speakerworks GN and Kimura's Legacy - both had dedicated midranges/midbasses in the rear - but they also had VERY custom horns up front.

So, can it work - sure, but it's a hell of a lot easier to get wrong.


Now, nsxxtreme - I will whole heartedly disagree that it takes a lot of MONEY to get a good stage - anyone can do this with even a modest investment. Where it gets hard is the work needed for the installation - which while it adds to cost - it doesn't have to.

At the end of the day - 10 installers can all start with EXACTLY the equipment list and end up with 10 cars that sound completely different


[edit] sorry to derail this thread even further - but you can't "rate" a system without hearing it - anyone who claims to do otherwise is just shooting from the hip - I have heard a lot of systems that LOOKED like they would sound terrible - but surprised me - and the vice versa is also very true!!! More-so than not. So listen with your ears, not your eyes!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now, if you look at the real old school cars - like Zaussmer's BMW (had rear speakers with a funky delay setup)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not to mention zaussmer had hacked up B&W nautilus 801's for his front stage. those speakers are unbelieveably loud if given enough power although the mids dont play anything below 400hz

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for anyone who's a serious about sound quality, there is no debate. </TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly. back in the 80's this was popular as was having many speakers in the car. Then the speakerworks grand national came along and kicked the crap out every single competitor.....winnienist car in car audio history.

It is extremely rare to see a SQ car with rear speakers. If you start getting sound cues from the rear it can really screw with things. If you're front stage is installed properly....path lengths are the same.....and you have a top-notch component set you won't need anything else.

I'm also not a fan of EQ at all....degraded my signal chain to the point I pulled it out and heard a noticeable improvement in clarity.

dynaudio dynaudio dynaudio.....I can't say enough about these speakers. They are incredible. my old set of focal utopias sound like rubbish compared to the dyns.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thekid03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
dynaudio dynaudio dynaudio.....I can't say enough about these speakers. They are incredible. my old set of focal utopias sound like rubbish compared to the dyns.</TD></TR></TABLE>

its interesting how both of those companies have made their name in the high end home audio business. personally if i was ever going to move away from my martin logans it would be to a pair of dynaudios.. I've heard the temptations and all i can say is wow.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmmm, interesting thread.

Let's ASSUME a true 2 channel SQ car, that is judged objectively in stage width, depth, image placement, and depth to stage - of these, rear fill will help none.

Now, the subjective stuff - tonality, ambience - the only place where rear fill COULD help is ambience. Remember though, ambinece, doesn't mean rear fill - what it means is that a large concert hall sounds like a large concert hall, a small jazz club like a small club - you get the idea. If having rear speakers makes your small jazz club sound like a huge empty room, you have just taken a big step backward.

Now, with that said, there is not a world champion SQ car that I can think of (and I know what's going on in many of them) that uses rear speakers wiht any kind of high frequency in them (let's say above the sub x-over point).

There is a reason for this - getting it right is a pain, it costs you extra power, extra space, and extra processing - that's it. Now, if you look at the real old school cars - like Zaussmer's BMW (had rear speakers with a funky delay setup) and the Speakerworks GN and Kimura's Legacy - both had dedicated midranges/midbasses in the rear - but they also had VERY custom horns up front.

So, can it work - sure, but it's a hell of a lot easier to get wrong.


Now, nsxxtreme - I will whole heartedly disagree that it takes a lot of MONEY to get a good stage - anyone can do this with even a modest investment. Where it gets hard is the work needed for the installation - which while it adds to cost - it doesn't have to.

At the end of the day - 10 installers can all start with EXACTLY the equipment list and end up with 10 cars that sound completely different


[edit] sorry to derail this thread even further - but you can't "rate" a system without hearing it - anyone who claims to do otherwise is just shooting from the hip - I have heard a lot of systems that LOOKED like they would sound terrible - but surprised me - and the vice versa is also very true!!! More-so than not. So listen with your ears, not your eyes!! </TD></TR></TABLE>


spot-on response.

the priciest of speakers installed in the wrong locations will be outdone time and time again by an inexpensive set of speakers installed in the right locations.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not to mention zaussmer had hacked up B&W nautilus 801's for his front stage. those speakers are unbelieveably loud if given enough power although the mids dont play anything below 400hz</TD></TR></TABLE>

are we talking about earl's old BMW with the B&W drivers???
if so ...we got more stereo OG's in here than i thought.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jz98ctr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

are we talking about earl's old BMW with the B&W drivers???
if so ...we got more stereo OG's in here than i thought. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes ma'am we are. i remember the first time i saw his car i was blown away. (i didnt see it in person but in a magazine.) it was the first time i saw tube amps B&W speakers. oddly enough i ended up owning the same B&W midrange and tweeters that he was running but i kept them in the house. The FST midrange is quite revolutionary speaker despite its frequency response limitation.