I had been dead set on the Koni SPSS3's in conjunction with some Ground Controls. However I just stumbled upon the PIC Select Coilovers.

There is a lot of info out there about the Koni/GC setups and they've proven themselves on and off the track. There also seems to be a good buzz about the PIC's, but since they haven't been around as long I'm having trouble gathering enough info to make a decision between the two setups. So any input would be greatly appreciated.

The suspension will be going on a DA. It is not by daily driver, it will see occasional spirited weekend driving but my focus will be prepping it for track days.

TIA!

 

Right after I found a great deal on my EDIT: USED Spss3 Konis and G/C setup for $925 shipped I stumbled upon the PIC Performance setup as well. I started second guessing my impulse buy which could have been a new setup from PIC for not much more.

I'm sure I will be happy with my Konis setup though. I've come accross a few people talking very highly of PIC and their service/products. I just bought a set of LCAs from them and they gave me great customer service. If I need anything in the future that they can offer, they will be one of the first companies I contact.

Good luck with your decision!


Modified by 6spdKEG at 2:44 PM 3/5/2007

 

i have no data comparisons, but I was in the same position trying to decide between koni race shocks with GC's and PIC selects.. I went for the PICs based on feedback from other racers, their customer service, and their dedication to growing with NASA and HC..

 

mind if I ask where you found the spss3's and GC's for $925 shipped? Thats better than either of the other deals I've found....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Colin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mind if I ask where you found the spss3's and GC's for $925 shipped? Thats better than either of the other deals I've found....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Slightly used.. . A reputable person was parting his car out so I snatched them up. Normally I would buy something like this new but Koni does not offer a warrantly on their race shocks any how.

You wont finda better deal than around $1350 for Koni Spss3 with G/C unless you have real good hookup or are sponsored or something

 

6spdKEG, My friend just ordered from weaksauce.org and he paid, I believe, $995 shipped. Maybe there is some confusion about the shocks. Koni has the OTS, SPSS3, and a full Race version, correct?

mstewar, thanks for your input. so far I'm getting mainly good words about the PIC's, however its still unclear if they are actually better than the Koni's....

 

the shocks that 6spdKEG purchased are the spss3 plus he got the collars and springs. that you can not get for 995 shipped. he purchased these from me completely assembled for that price shipped. i say it was a good deal

 

Support: Koni's support is second to none. If the PIC support is as good as I've heard people say you'll be a winner with either setup. IE, quality of support is not a deal maker/breaker for either brand.

Cost: The Koni's cost more.

Performance: The Koni's are going to outperform the PIC's. This is due primarily on the fact that the PIC's use a needle/seat style adjuster. This is a very affordable adjuster, but it has many limitations. The biggest is that the range of adjustement with this style of adjuster is much smaller then the adjuster mechanism that Koni uses. (Koni uses different size orifices to control fluid flow)

Is the performance difference great enough to offset the price difference? I can't say, as it is going to be different for each person. Will the PIC's last as long as Koni's? Too early to tell, imo. I know for a fact that the SPSS3 valved Koni's are capable of surviving New England roads, winter salt and sand included, with 800lb+ spring rates for years. I would go with the Koni's, but I'm slightly biased. Keep doing your research, ask many questions from both the PIC guys and Lee. Finally, and this is really important, understand that due to the cost of buying, testing, and optimizing each setup, anyone you ask is going to heavily biased towards their preferred brand.

 

If the Koni/GC combo were easy to top, then we would not have such a hard time clawing for our scrap of the market. There is no doubt why so many people prefer the Koni/GC combo above all others.

But if I didn't think that PIC had a chance of surpassing the quality, performance, and reputatation of the benchmark, then I would never have started the company.

 

thanks for the input solo-x, I think I'm definitely leaning a certain way now, but I haven't made my decision for sure.

You're 100% right about the bias thing, that is why its been hard gathering any type of decent info here. It all comes down to opinion. Most people here haven't used both setups so a straight head to head comparison is going to be tough to find. And when you review a $1000+ mod to your car, you are most likely going to be in love with it. Cause if not you're just reinforcing to yourself that you got ripped off and/or made a bad decision, lol.

 

Colin,

The Koni setup you probably have quoted are just the Koni Sports

The ones that I picked up are the Koni race Spss3 shocks which are usually around $250+ per shock. Add GC setup on top of that and you are looking at $1400 for a Spss3 setup.. .
Go here for reference
http://www.redshiftmotorsports...at=36

Good luck with your decision

 

I am the friend who picked up the Spss3's with the g/c's. I was quoted two different prices, One for the sports and the other for the spss3's that are also shortened. I know what I paid and I know what I got. I have the shocks sitting in the back of my car and they are the spss3's. I searched and searched and also made sure I didn't buy the sports. The Price was $990 shipped with custom gc's with the spss3's. The option I had was for regular Koni sports with gc's and gc top hats for $970.

 

you got one hell of a deal then. More power to you and if I were you Colin, I'd go and buy the same setup your friend import2nr88 has.

I don't know how that company sold you those Koni Race Spss3s so cheap.

If you don't have the "8041 - XxXxrace" Konis, you don't have the same ones as I. You probably have Koni Sports valved with Spss parts.


Modified by 6spdKEG at 2:46 PM 3/6/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If you don't have the "8041 - XxXxrace" Konis, you don't have the same ones as I. You probably have Koni Sports valved with Spss parts.


Modified by 6spdKEG at 2:46 PM 3/6/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

My impression was that there are the normal "sports" and then the SPSS3's. And that the SPSS's are identical to the Sports except:

-more aggressive valving (can handle closer to 1000lb springs opposed to 500lb)
-shock bodies had been shortened
-more choices on where the snap-ring can mount (3 choices, thus the "3" at the end of the name)

Are the SPSS valved "Race" shocks you are talking about different still?

 

My Boxes say 8041-166SP3
They also have 5 snap ring mounts, at least on the fronts, I didn't check the rears while i was out.

 

id be willing to bet that some one got confused and you got the sp3's, AKA Nuespeed koni's. they have the extra circle clips.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by import2nr88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">. The Price was $990 shipped with custom gc's with the spss3's. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know what the COST is to retailers on both of these units. If you really got that, then who ever sold that stuff to you lost money. Koni sports are around 120 to 110each, the spss3's are 230 to 250 each, the sp3's are just alittle more then the sports 5 to 10 each (these are the prices in which people sell them for). Ground control's for the custom rates are 310-330.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Colin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">6spdKEG, My friend just ordered from weaksauce.org and he paid, I believe, $995 shipped. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd bet a few dollars that weaksauce sold him SP3's. I contact him to see what his prices were like, since he said he could get and koni race shock. So i asked for a price on 3011's and 2812's for a 1994 honda civic. He first quoted me 1000, and then when i questioned the price and why there was only one he said he didn't know what "3011" or "2812" was, and that were was NO koni shocks with those numbers.

I gave up at that point.

It shouldn't be that hard to order parts, but when you dealing with some one who doesn't really know the product i guess it can be.

if you would like information on a Educated seller who knows race products, PM me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weeksauce.org &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
-We’re also having a sale on GROUND CONTROL top hats as well!
-We're also able to get the KONI YELLOWS with SSP3 Valving (pm for price)
-We're also able to get the KONI RACE SHOCKS (pm for price)
.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that is incorrect. There is no yellow's with ssp3 valving. I don't even think an ssp3 valving is something koni offers.

They DO offer SPSS3 valving. A year or so ago you would have to buy a set of yellows and then pay to have them re-valved. Lee Grimes worked hard and got the a shortened re-valved, AKA 'race shock' to be produced. So now you can call them up and say i want the 8041 race shock and you get a shortened and re-valved yellow.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by import2nr88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My Boxes say 8041-166SP3
</TD></TR></TABLE>

you have the Nuespeed/Sp3 koni sports.

YOU DON'T have the race ones

 

I currently have a set of yellows from an 89-91 civic which I just sent off to Pro Parts USA. I'm waiting to hear back from them about what it will cost to have them shortened and valved to the SPSS3 specs.

It seems that rebuild/revalving usually costs almost as much as just buying new yellows. But I'm not sure yet how much extra it will be to shorten, and if there are any extra costs involved in changing to the more aggressive valving (although I would assume not, or at least they would be very minimal).

The price for rebuild/revalve/shorten is going to have a big effect on what suspension I end up going with...

slammed, thanks a bunch for your help. I appreciate the time you've taken to actually list out things and make it CLEAR what you are saying (its getting hard to find that on the forums now).

 

weaksause quoted me for $1400 shipped for Koni RACE with G/C.. .
$1040 shipped for Koni w/spss3 with G/C
Shipped to IOWA

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that is incorrect. There is no yellow's with ssp3 valving. I don't even think an ssp3 valving is something koni offers.

you have the Nuespeed/Sp3 koni sports.

YOU DON'T have the race ones</TD></TR></TABLE>

slammed_93_hatch,

Just so we have a finite answer listed on this thread, ""What are the differences b/t the Nuespeed/Sp3 Koni Sports and the Koni RACE shock? ""

Not only would I like this clarified but people should know what they are getting if they are going after either or.. .

 

After some quick research i have learned this about Nuespeed/sp3 Koni's.

*20mm drop travel (same lenghth compressed just less drop travel when vehicle is lifted.

*Five clip ring grooves to be used to further lower a car when using non adjustable springs.

*same valving as OFS Koni Yellows.

Deff. nothing close to the Race Konis.

 

There is some confusion here and I think it is because people are talking about the valving variation name and confusing that with the part number.

The current racing valving is called SPSS3 (first called SPSS long ago, updated then called SPSS1, updated for quick builds on the service trailer and called SPSS2, and finally updated a few years ago to the current valving SPSS3). This valving is in the current 8041-XXXXRACE which has a 1 inch shorter body and approx. 40mm of extra droop limiter/rebound stop. Since the SPSS3 is getting a very high amount of damping force from the shock of that size, I really don't expect there to need to be a further step. If you need much more, time to head to a 3011.3012 or a 2812.

For over a decade, we have also made a special version of the KONI Sport shock for Neuspeed with alternate spring perch grooves and an extra 20mm rebound stop/Droop limiter and normal Sport body length and valving and it was called 8041-XXXXSP3. This is a very good unit and has a place inthe market but just not on a dedicated racing car.

If people call the shocks "SPSS3" then the door is opened for confusion with the Neuspeed SP3s as has obviouosly happened with the dealer above. It really shouldn't be necessary to mention SPSS3 because naturally one would want to have the most up-to-date and aggressive racing valving for their racecar so simply discussing or ordering the RACE shocks will eliminate any risk of confusion.

 

BTW, Prima racing is now offer Koni as well. We sells full range of Koni shocks. Icluding our specified valving of Koni 3011, 3012, and 2812.


Modified by Andrie Hartanto at 11:07 AM 3/7/2007

 

Thanks for the confirmation and detail, Lee.

 

Thanks weaksauce, Problem has been worked out and their add has been changed to the correct stuff.

still great service and people to work with.

**colin** So I am still going to be able to keep up a little with you, sending back the sp3's and picking up some RACE units from them.

Thanks again weksos for fixing the misunderstanding quickly and politly.