im looking into getting some camshafts what are the best between skunk2's stage 2 pro series, toda's spec c2 and blox type a's ? now i could get the skunk's for like 650$ the toda's for 800$ and the blox for like 400$ i dont care about the cheeper and better power i just wanna know what will give me more power and yeah im gettin valvetrain done also thanx

 

The most peak power, or the most useable powerband? I personally think the Skunk2 Pro2 is a great all around cam, and the best choice of the cams listed.

 

oh and i've searched on this website but it seems to be that nobody is clear on what's better all they say well yeah does are cheaper and the best way to go.

 

before anyone else says it..
what mods do u have on ur car..? and what are ur future plans..

 

well i have hytech headers 2'25 inch pipping with a tanabe muffler, skunk 2 pro manifold wich im not so sure that a good choice short ram intake and im getting some toda cam gears depemding on the cams i get before this im gona rebuild my motor cuz it runs like **** and also im gettin valves, sring's and retainers

 

For a stock bottom end GSR, get the blox type A's. In simplest terms, the other two are too aggressive for your setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Uncle Willie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For a stock bottom end GSR, get the blox type A's. In simplest terms, the other two are too aggressive for your setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As in your motor doesn't have enough compression to utilize the bigger cams.

 

well i took my car for a leakdown and compression test and the cylinder #3 is 115 psi and has a 60% leak into the bottom end, should i rebuild it? can i? im thinking of rebuilding bach into stock what do you guy's think?

 

**** ya rebuild it. Put some JDM ITR pistons in it with skunk 2 pro 1 cams. That will put down some nice #'s.

 

yeah i know im getting tha s2 pro 1's. their said to be one of the most all around power adders from low 2 high rpm's. the stage 2's are more of a top end power gainer and plus im not sure if they would pass inspection.

 

so i should get the itr pistons? should i keep the stock crank? also will the itr pistons fit if i were to rebuild to stock settings?

 

also will does pistons handle the toda camhafts? should i get the standard size type r pistons or the over size?

 

When doing the bottom end, you should go oversized. When the cylinder walls get honed, it usually makes it a bit bigger, and usually shops do .25 bigger to accommodate the new type-r oversized pistons.

However, with Toda C's, I would suggest going 83-85mm pistons with a CR of about 12.0:1. I've had experience with Toda Bs and Cs. If you want to just stick to .25 oversized type-r I would go with the Bs because it's got more midrange power, more usable power.

As far as skunk pros, friends of mine have them and make great power. Skunk is cheaper and would probably give you just as much power in the same area.
I have no experience with blox, so no comment on that one.

 

blox A's have pretty good top end... my dyno sheet showed power still increasing at redline (8200) in a b16a (10.2:1 compression)

 

Well seems to be that the best way to go is with the skunk’s stage 2 then huh? Umm ok, now as far as pistons, say I were to get the type r ones and oversize to .25 will those would run ok with the skunk2 camshafts? And I don’t need to upgrade anything else? Because I’ve been told that when changing to after market pistons I need to upgrade my throttle body,fuel injectors ect, is that true? I want to know cuz ill probably do all this next week and I need to know what I need to get, this is what I have in mind well starting from the block ill oversize to .25 get the type r pistons and ring’s skunk2 pro series stage 2 camshafts with skunk2 pro series cam gears and some dual valve spring’s titanium retainer’s and some good valves would that be a good set-up? thanx guys.

 

no use if your engine doesnt have the compression for it

 

so i should go with bigger pistons? like .85? the thing is that i dont wanna spend more than $2,000 on the build!!!!! so if i were to go that big i dont need to up-grade anything else other than cams,rings,springs,valves and retainers?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000DC2_freak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so i should go with bigger pistons? like .85? the thing is that i dont wanna spend more than $2,000 on the build!!!!! so if i were to go that big i dont need to up-grade anything else other than cams,rings,springs,valves and retainers?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you stay with Honda built pistons, they will be offered in the stock bore of 81mm or the over-sized (used when rebuilding) 81.5mm bore. I am assuming that this is an otherwise stock internal GS-R block and head, which will yield the following compression ratios:

USDM GS-R pistons (p72-a0)..........................................10.20 :1
JDM Integra Type-R pistons (p73-00)...............................11.47:1
JDM Civic Type-R pistons (JDM B16B)..............................12.15:1

With any aftermarket camshafts it is wise to upgrade the valve springs. Titanium retainers are a popular upgrade as well, though there is some debate whether or not their longevity makes them a cost-effective upgrade. However that is another discussion for another day. As for the actual valves being replaced; I don't see why they would need to be replaced in this application. You are not after outrageous all-motor horsepower, nor are you likely to do an extreme amount of head-work. As long as the valves are in good shape, save your money.

Now for my thoughts...
I think that the JDM Integra Type-R pistons can be used in your application, and yield favorable results. Seeing that you are in CA, and pretty much restricted to horse-**** 91 octane gas, I would not recommend the Civic Type-R pistons. I think 12:1 is a bit too high for CA's 91 octane (which differs from other states 91 octane), and would likely lead to detonation with a tank of bad gas. So if you have settled on the JDM ITR pistons (and for the sake of my post here, you have), you are offered a pretty healthy 11.47:1 compression ratio. This CR is high enough to use pretty much any cam that you would want to run on the street. Sure there are more aggressive cams on the market, but they need even higher CR's to be happy, and are not likely to be street-able. With that said, I recommend the Skunk2 Pro-2 cams. Although the Pro-1 is a nice cam, it has vacuum issues at lower RPM and often requires you to pull fuel out of the fuel table (as much as 25% on some motors) in order to achieve a smooth idle. The Pro-2s are a little better cam for idling purposes, and have one hell of a mid-range, while being absolutely fun up top.

So, you have JDM ITR pistons, Skunk2 Pro-2 cams, and a good set of valve springs, now what?
Obviously the p72 ECU wasn't designed for this CR, or a 9,200rpm red-line. In fact, Honda stopped mapping fuel and ignition tables at 9,000rpm. If you were to miss-shift or otherwise exceed 9,000rpm on a stock ECU it would simply maintain the same Ignition and fuel table settings as it uses at 9,000rpm. So you know that you will need to upgrade the ECU to a programmable unit, that is capable of supporting this setup. Hondata's s200 is a nice unit, and would be more than able to meet the needs of this setup. You will also need to get enough fuel for this setup to function, a set of 440cc/min injectors ought to be large enough to support the aforementioned parts. And if you are doing all of this work anyhow, why not swap out the GS-R dual-stage intake manifold with a single plane design? Have that port-matched to a 65mm throttle body, and you are on your way to a perfectly drivable, and decently potent setup.

/my $0.02

 

wow thanks alot bro.... but im a bit confused the type r pistons a got are from the 98 spec integra type r and they say that its a oversize piston at .25 but you say that there 81.5mm? now, is that the same size as the type r's or is it that im confused ?

 

Tornadom pretty much gave you a great deal of info and some good advice on a setup as well.

My mistake for not mentioning the gas issues but yes, the 12.0:1 CR will be high with just the use of 91octane. [However, many tuners, especially in the bay area, have had lots of high compression cars tuned for the streets.]

With me mentioning the use of bigger pistons was strictly if you wanted an outrageous setup and wanted to stick to the Toda C setup. You will definitely need to sleeve your block and the bigger piston is mainly just to squeeze out every hp you can get, as well as tweaking your torque.

With the 81.5mm I didnt know those were offered already [shows how much I've been keeping up with this game], but those would be great, no need to sleeve the block and it gives you a great CR.

Tornadom also mentions that the use of the hondata s200 unit. I have no first hand experience with that but I've heard lots of good stuff. I used the PowerFC and I loved that setup. Easy switching between my desired driving. As far as the intake manifolds go, port matching the TB is a great investment. [Had a different setup from that though, I actually had my ITBS port matched with the head... ]

NA setups are definitely fun especially when you make the desired power you want, however it does cost a lot of money. Too much actually. If I had the money to spend again, I would most likely put it on a turbo setup instead, with just enough engine strengthening and call it a day. Hopefully that doesnt change your mind but I just wanted to put that out there.

 

ok so just answer this, i got the pistons that ment for a .25 honed block is that the same size for the oversize type r pistons? 81.5mm? or are thoes the 81mm?... ok i think i got it so the type r pistons stock size is 81mm right? and the 81.5mm are the oversize ones? so when i get the block honed for the oversize pistons a need to get it honed at .25? sorry im just pretty slow for this kind of stuff!!!! it's my first time doing this thanx. ok and my last question theres a difference between usdm itr and jdm itr right? obviously jdm itr are better right? cuz i think i got the usdm and im picking them up tomorrow but i can change them if theres a difference thanx again!!


Modified by 2000DC2_freak at 3:05 AM 3/5/2007

 

Keep one thing in mind....The more radical an engine is, the lower the lifespan. If you build a 12:1 engine, expect a rebuild under 50,000 miles.

I'd stay w/ITR pistons if I were you.

 

if ur motor is usdm b18c1 engine these are result for motor
usdm itr 10:6.1original
jdm itr 11:0.1 original
now with 1797 cc short block
usdm itr=10:8.1
jdm itr= 11:3.1
now which one would you choose in ur shortblock that is the question.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000DC2_freak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok so just answer this, i got the pistons that ment for a .25 honed block is that the same size for the oversize type r pistons? 81.5mm? or are thoes the 81mm?... ok i think i got it so the type r pistons stock size is 81mm right? and the 81.5mm are the oversize ones? so when i get the block honed for the oversize pistons a need to get it honed at .25? sorry im just pretty slow for this kind of stuff!!!! it's my first time doing this thanx. ok and my last question theres a difference between usdm itr and jdm itr right? obviously jdm itr are better right? cuz i think i got the usdm and im picking them up tomorrow but i can change them if theres a difference thanx again!!


Modified by 2000DC2_freak at 3:05 AM 3/5/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you have the 81.5mm pistons, have your block bored to 81.5mm. If the machine shop can't figure how to convert from inches to mm, chances are good that you shouldn't be having the work done there anyway. And to answer your other question, yes the JDM ITR pistons differ from the USDM ITR pistons. The JDM pistons will yield a higher compression ratio than the USDM pistons, whether or not that is favorable is up to you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98GSRDC2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no use if your engine doesnt have the compression for it</TD></TR></TABLE>

Every time I see you post, it's jumbled garbage, or something very vague, so why bother?