I was reading a post about "touge driving" and alot of people flamed a kid for driving the downhill. Did anybody offer anything good on that. evorybody starts somewhere roadracers start in the canyons. most drag racers start on the streets. It all goes back to a lack of information. most highschool kids dont know about hpde, nasa, scca. so inturn thay drive canyons to hone there skills (sometimes with bad resalts). this could be avoided by educating drivers about how easy it is to run in hpde events. I used to drive in the hills and street race. now I am getting ready for my first nasa event at mid-ohio and looking forward to my next. the only thing that took me off the streets and on a track was a simple scedule of club events at my local speed shop. If its that easy to stop street racing and canyon racing why do we still have it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by featherwieght &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">roadracers start in the canyons</TD></TR></TABLE>

Umm ... no. Most of us start on kart tracks or at HPDEs or even just playing video games that simulate real driving. Choosing to habitually put yourself and (more importantly) others in danger on public roads because you think it's fun is a statement to your character regardless of whether or not you know that closed course driving exists. I don't disagree that the organizations who sponsor track events should do more to promote themselves in the community at large, but personally I don't think that as many of the canyon runners would jump on board as you're implying even if they did know about local track events.

Edit: Good luck at your first HPDE. Glad to see you make the transition.

 

i started out on the curvy public roads

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by featherwieght &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most highschool kids dont know about hpde, nasa, scca. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yet somehow they have no trouble finding out were the parties are on the weekends. The difference is they are LOOKING for the parties...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only thing that took me off the streets and on a track was a simple scedule of club events at my local speed shop.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Commendable that it was printed and posted. Also that you read it. Still, you've been out of highschool a few years. Would you have read it then?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If its that easy to stop street racing and canyon racing why do we still have it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
For the same reasons we still have drugs, under-aged drinking and sex before marriage. People just have a hard time with delayed gratification. And, there are damned few SCCA/NASA members willing to knock on doors or stand on street corners preaching the virtues of a sin-free life.

 

of course i would have. you must be one of those people that dosent know what
its like to lay in the mud with tools for four hours at a junk yard so you can get one part to gain 2hp so next week you win. What i am saying is not evoryone
grew up with the money to race karts.


and whats this:

For the same reasons we still have drugs, under-aged drinking and sex before marriage. People just have a hard time with delayed gratification. And, there are damned few SCCA/NASA members willing to knock on doors or stand on street corners preaching the virtues of a sin-free life.


sin free life you must have grew up in a nice rich family have fun playin with
yourself flanders.

 

As it turns out I actually worked in a junk yard all thru college.

And I have committed all of the same sins to which I pointed my finger. It was an analogy, not an accusation.

 

Looks like Someone is picking on Thawley.
Not a good idea. You are talking to MR Thawley the third.
Big mafioso in the photography industry.


Edo

 

I think its more than ignorance, its the mentality of doing something wrong that makes them "uber touge caynon racers."

I was on the way back from a auto-x with a couple buddies who all drove in the same event, and on the way back I get a txt that says "lets meet at the top of XYZ mtn!"

He wanted a place to hone his new skills. Lets just say I dont call that guy anymore.

It almost takes these guys a actual crash to learn their lesson. I just dont get it.

 

thats a nice da edomoto

he just came off as a rich kid and stomped all over the point i was tring to make. Witch is if one guy puts up a list of club races at a speed shop and it stops about six guys from canyon running would it be worth it to put one up at your local shop?

people will always do what makes them happy. If thats driving a canyon road fine but i would rather run on a track.

 

"In order to be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid."

What's truly unfortunate is that some never make this transition.

 

we flame because we care. We don't want stupid togue runners to get into accidents, with themselves or with others around them. It makes the entire scene look bad, as the public begins to associate modified cars with dumb kids and mountain accidents.

You just gotta get each person one at a time, and eventually they may find the road course or auto-x.

 

i agree but by flaming you may also push them away from the track at the same time. if you mean well then push track days not hate becouse someone is conecting with there car. I dont preach b-s i have seen too many wrecks and lost a couple good friends to racing on the street. but what skill i have i have learned on the street. now i am taking it to the track to see if my skills will turn good lap times. I still have 3 months to get my car on the road if not i will take my 4 door.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by featherwieght &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont preach b-s i have seen too many wrecks and lost a couple good friends to racing on the street.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Shouldn't even a street racing related wreck be enough to make you at least re-consider what you're doing? I think this statement is where your whole argument just went wrong. I'm 26 years old, which is still fairly young, but in my younger and stupider days, I think losing a good friend to street racing would have really hit me and changed my ways.

 

well by the time i was 16 and 6 months old... i had three tickets for 20+ So i'm no saint... but my parent shoved me into autoxing and TSD rally driving to help "calm" me down a bit.

we flame because we care.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Umm ... no. Most of us start on kart tracks or at HPDEs or even just playing video games that simulate real driving. Choosing to habitually put yourself and (more importantly) others in danger on public roads because you think it's fun is a statement to your character regardless of whether or not you know that closed course driving exists. I don't disagree that the organizations who sponsor track events should do more to promote themselves in the community at large, but personally I don't think that as many of the canyon runners would jump on board as you're implying even if they did know about local track events.

Edit: Good luck at your first HPDE. Glad to see you make the transition.</TD></TR></TABLE>

&lt;Slowly Raises Hand&gt; I started on back country roads... stupid now but I did do it at 16. Wrecked my first truck that way. I even knew not to since I grew up in a racing family! After I wrecked my first truck, Dad got me involved with SCCA in Solo 2... should have done that a few months earlier!

Just thinking off the top of my head, why doesn't our local goups: NASA, SCCA, etc get hooked up with the Highway Patrol and Police. Give these kids an outlet to get the speed out. They do it with drag racing, why not with road racing, HPDE's, and autocross?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MarkosMotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why doesn't our local goups: NASA, SCCA, etc get hooked up with the Highway Patrol and Police. Give these kids an outlet to get the speed out. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Good idea. I'd play.

I already take my car to two local car shows a year. I do my best to stand around, answer questions and explain the different levels of involvement. I always give out the web address and invite them to the next event.

The best conversations are usually with father and son standing together.

 

i don't think that it's ignorance that people do mountain driving, i'm sure they know about autoxing road racing etc, it's more of the budget and the friends that they are surrounded with. it's free, it's thrilling, and it's dangerous. it's hard to learn from other people's mistakes, but easy to learn from your own, so it's pretty much inevitable to stop "tougaying"

edit: in addition, you can also blame the initial d show and game, and the other arcade games that race on the streets.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by null. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">edit: in addition, you can also blame the initial d show and game, and the other arcade games that race on the streets. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah cause it didn't exist before those came out Art following life or vice versa?


anyway, I think Thawley hit the nail square on the head

"People just have a hard time with delayed gratification"

This is especially true with young adults. Teens lack a sense of mortality. They think "it can't happen t me because XYZ". I know that's how I was when I was young. I raced on the street, I drove way too fast on the freeway (in a dangerous car no less), and I've come close to being bitten because of it.

I knew about HPDE, AutoX and Karting long before I did my first track day. The main thing that kept me away was money. I've wanted to race cars for as long as I can remember so why don't I now? Money. I wanted to do HPDEs for a few years before I did my first one. Why did I wait? Money. So no matter how much advertising and prodding you do, HPDE cost money and street driving is free. This will cause people to go out and "race" on the street. I'm not condoning it, I'm just saying the reality is that its there and will never go away.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by featherwieght &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but what skill i have i have learned on the street. now i am taking it to the track to see if my skills will turn good lap times. I still have 3 months to get my car on the road if not i will take my 4 door.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

What skills have you learned on the streets? it really doesn't matter how many years you've practised on the street your lap time will still suck. Do you really think you can learn to drive at the limit on the street? I'm not bashing your skills, but driving fast on a street won't help you as much as actual seat time.

How are you supposed to know the limit if your car if there is a pothole in the middle of the line? gravel? what about falling off the cliff? a part of learning is finding the limit, you have no idea where that is, how can you be fast?

I'm not flaming you, I'm just explaining you don't have as much skill as you think.

 

canyons and mountain roads are no place to hone your driving skills.

the best place is in elementary school parking lots right when the kids are getting out of school for the day. see how your driving improves when you are dodging buses and little children.
it's also great for honing your autox skills, as i've found the kindergarten thru 3rd graders are about the same height as parking cones!!!
it's ok to touch them, but remember running them over is going to be +2 seconds.

 

so driving in a caynon does not improve your driving skills?

I have to disagree in the fact that you have to find the limit so you don't push too hard and wreck. on a track with a prepared serfice will have a much higher level of grip changing braking points and corner speeds from what i am used too. at the same time i would think pushing my car then will give me a advantage over a first timer to track racing.

 

You seem the type that will be doing a lot of lawn mowing

I personaly think the biggest difference is how much more you'll use, or can use your car up at the track, vs. on the street.

I think one thing he was trying to get across was that on the street, if you have any fear at all, you'll think of the rocks, guard rails, people so on, so you'll likely never drive as fast as you truly could. Now, i have a friend that i don't think this is true with, but i know for me it is. I push my car way, way harder on the track then i ever would try on the street, plus consistency in turns is key.

 

when i did do a canyon run i wasent thinking about anything but my breaking zones and the line i wanted to hold. we would have a guy at each end to let us know if a car had turned onto the road we were using. so we could go at 9/10ths down the road.

I found a nice flying lap of mid-ohio on there website so i have a good idea of the ideal line for a front wheel drive. I am running in group 1 so i will have a instructer with me to let me know where i can speed up or if im comming into a area to hot.

Modified by featherwieght at 5:33 PM 3/2/2007


Modified by featherwieght at 5:33 PM 3/2/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by donz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How are you supposed to know the limit if your car if there is a pothole in the middle of the line? gravel? what about falling off the cliff? a part of learning is finding the limit, you have no idea where that is, how can you be fast?
</TD></TR></TABLE>


BC they are STREET cars.If they were RACE cars on the street, then we would never know the limits, but people are limited by the street, so thats the limit they make for there car.

Im not running 3/4inch off the ground and open turbo, BC im driving on the street.

 

he makes a good point the fact that we are using street cars on the street our suspention settings are not as extream as a full racecar. so our cars flex and react to the road alot better. so gravel and pot holes dont effect it as much durring a run.