People are making incredible numbers with NA K series engines on a regular basis now, im not saying there is a supreme set formula, but it isnt uncommon to hear of 350hp+ K Drag cars.

To even stay remotely competitve (whether at the stoplight or at the racetrack) B series engine builders have been pushing the physical displacement limitations of the packages and you pretty much need a 2 liter to do anything worthwhile these days.

While we can divide amongst ourselves because we're familiar with a specific platform, B or K or D or H, it doesnt matter.There are 100 ways to skin a cat. In 2 years from now, do you think we'll be seeing any B series builds remaining competitive at the track? I, for one, see alot more H builds recently than i used, and i think thats a good thing that the community is diversifying itself, i think there is alot of untapped potential in the H.

I'll start by saying i think in 2 years, the H will be the only platform that will still be able to even remotely hang with the K stuff, at least on the proAM level.

 

the single most significant advantage that the K has over the b is its displacement ability.

K-series advantages
displacement options
roller rockers
head ports
more rigid block

k dissadvantages
limted parts support (but growing)
heavy pistons
engines complexity (requires higher level of knowledge and skill for tuning and building)
cost

I myself have never been an advocate of using size as a means to increase power, but its nice to know that its an option with the K.

 

K is def going to be the new B.. Right now people are still afraid because it does take a lot more work to swap in then a B and if you mess it up, you will spend a good amont on a replacement k.. My next build is DEF going to be a K.. I just hate shift cables :/

 

I believe as far as the proAm drag circuit is concerned, the K will be the motor of choice the motor's potential is still growing today whereas B series have pretty much been tapped out. Now with the H2B kit now on the market, it is giving H series another avenue to go down. With further R & D on the H2B kit, the H will be a top performer I think.

As far as the DD/Weekend drag car, I think B series is still going to be around because the average tuner (at least me anyway) can't afford a K and with B series being cheap they still put out a decent amount of power (180-200whp) just because the B series is old and kind of obsolute technology engine doesn't mean it's suddenly going to go away. I mean the nissan SR20's are still around, the toyota 4A-Gs are still around, as well as the domestic LS-1s and other V-8s we'll just have to see in 2 years

 

i agree with pretty much everything said in this thread. the B will still be the weekend warrior motor of choice. you can easily do a mild build keeping a B 1.8L and run 12s all day. the guys that are ballers and need bragging rights will move to the K. bolt on some parts, tune and run 12s with a bone stock motor with cam upgrade run into the 11s without a problem.
i mean your looking at a true miniumum of 6k or more just to get the K into the car. ive had a K sitting in my garage for easily over a yr just to watch it collect dust because i dont have the funds to throw it in either of my cars. in the meantime i have my full race B motor and a OEM rebuild B in the works still at a fraction of the cost of that K.

 

I agree with 1 2 NV.

The B-Series is much like the original Chevy Small Block.

Look at what it's got going for it:

- Price
- Parts availability
- Wealth of knowledge (My little sister can piece an LSVTEC together. )
- Decent power-to-dollar ratio.

While the be-all, end-all in 2 yeasr will be the K-Series and H-Series, no doubt, I still forsee the B-Series engines as being a foot-in-the-door to the all motor scene.

- Derek

 

the b-series isnt going anywhere.
the h series also isnt going anywhere
maybe in five years but not in two
that makes me

 

As far as street motors go, watch out for the 2 lobe K series motors. There is already a HUGE amount of them on the road, and they are in so many different Honda models they are only going to get more abundant. They are extremely street friendly motors, and I think people will be surprised by the numbers they will be putting out soon.

 

I believe the h-series has finally gained momentum is partly due to the reason of being able to run a better transmission. But the b-series will be around for a while (Def. in a F/I set-up) and if it does get a tad bit cheaper it will be the weekend warriors motor of choice. but where do you think the F-series will stack up against a k-series?

 

All good points in this thread.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Professor15 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but where do you think the F-series will stack up against a k-series? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I havent looked at an F head close enough. You are referring the non S2K F heads right? Because i have studied the F20C ports, just not the F22A1's and the like.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as street motors go, watch out for the 2 lobe K series motors. There is already a HUGE amount of them on the road, and they are in so many different Honda models they are only going to get more abundant. They are extremely street friendly motors, and I think people will be surprised by the numbers they will be putting out soon.</TD></TR></TABLE> what are 2 lobe K-series motors? k24/k20 right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Initial Dizzle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> what are 2 lobe K-series motors? k24/k20 right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Accord, Element, CRV, EP3, base RSX.

 

well look at it this way 2-3 years ago 170whp was a sick street setup now thats nothing its 200+ is the standard. I dont think the b will ever be gone. The h2b kit sheds a lot of light on the h series because you can build a huge h motor same as k. Only time can tell but i do think that the k is the wave of the future.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Accord, Element, CRV, EP3, base RSX.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the common theme for those setups is people finding the type S or TSX or new Civic Si rocker assy and cams and jsut putting them in those motors and swapping the rocker pins to having one valve on vtec all the time since no LMAs ... and those setups typically make 200whp as they sit, but can't take high rpms or too much past 7500rpm etc.

the B-series still has a nice grunt for the daily drivers, and weekend warriors, they are becomming so much cheaper now, lol I see complete b16a swaps for under $1k and am flabbergasted ...

like omni said, when the K prices come down there will so many of them, there is even a newer version k-series with unreal fuel and emission figures its unreal.

The h and f-series def are making a comeback with the h2b kits, so you can definitely go after displacement from the H-series for way cheaper than the K-series.

 

I'll have a few high power D builds in by then, and will be playing with a B series.

Possibly different material use in B's to keep them competitive. Berryllium(sp) alloy will find its way into pistons and roller barrel ITB's will be in development. A new breakthrough with headers will be found to gain another 5hp throughout the entire powerband.

Bisi will run 8's SOHC, and some 70's street racers will jump into the game to show us young folks how its done.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chugger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well look at it this way 2-3 years ago 170whp was a sick street setup now thats nothing its 200+ is the standard. I</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with most of the points but this one. 170WHP 3 yrs ago was stock with SMSP or hytech header and exhaust. i think it was more like 200 then and 220+ now.

 

this is unbeliveable. a informative thread that hasnt turned to **** yet

k is definetly the future, but as said earlier cost are still the down side. i myself am almost done my ls/v setup, to be tuned april 6th, i wish i would of put the same amount of energy/money into a H series with the jdm itr trans i am using .

 

I see 4 liter Honda Engines.

They seem to be getting bigger every year.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> some 70's street racers will jump into the game to show us young folks how its done.</TD></TR></TABLE>


That I can honestly see happening. Locally it's starting to come about where I live now. Old school guys who have been doing this for a LONG time starting to see the technology, add their input on what they have used to make power for a long time from bearing clearances to quench and custom ground cams and making even more power.

Aside from that, as K's come down in price (if they do), then they will start to gain a lot more popularity as I don't see the added work being the biggest turn off as just the added cost. Most guys who are interested in this are still young and don't have the disposable income required to drop K cash on a car that's just a toy so they stick with the B for now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by theyoungone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I see 4 liter Honda Engines.

They seem to be getting bigger every year. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ive already seen one.

wait, are you talking about a 4 cyl?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I havent looked at an F head close enough. You are referring the non S2K F heads right? Because i have studied the F20C ports, just not the F22A1's and the like.</TD></TR></TABLE>yes i was talking about the F22A1 heads.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Accord, Element, CRV, EP3, base RSX.</TD></TR></TABLE> dont those heads actually flow better in certain area's then the the type R/S Si.

I wonder what times some of these street cars are going to be getting...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHEETAH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the common theme for those setups is people finding the type S or TSX or new Civic Si rocker assy and cams and jsut putting them in those motors and swapping the rocker pins to having one valve on vtec all the time since no LMAs ... and those setups typically make 200whp as they sit, but can't take high rpms or too much past 7500rpm etc.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


A few preliminary results that I've been shown and have heard about lead me to believe such rocker swaps may not be needed. We will have to see as more cam choices become available for these motors.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Professor15 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

dont those heads actually flow better in certain area's then the the type R/S Si.

I wonder what times some of these street cars are going to be getting... </TD></TR></TABLE>

They can, yes.

 

k-series will for sure take over...but I am going to stay B-series as long as I can

 

what about the new vtec thats about to come out?

http://world.honda.com/news/2006/4060925VTEC/

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lqd44 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about the new vtec thats about to come out?

http://world.honda.com/news/2006/4060925VTEC/</TD></TR></TABLE>

sounds like a tuners wetdream