Greetings Y'all,

I do have a few questions to ask from the experts around here.
My current engine setup is a 98 Spec JDM ITR Head (everything ITR except it's installed with B16B Cam) and a standard B20B bottom engine. Recently I have got another JDM ITR bottom with a minor defect, so I was thinking about moving everything except the pistons (a new set of 84mm would have to be bought separately) into the B20B Block that I already have

I suppose everything would fit right in? Crank, Rod, Oil & Water Pumps?
I'm about 98% certain that everything would fit right in except for the pistons
No addtional mods would be necessary too? Because I already have everything
drilled for the VTEC to work. I also do plan to change the pumps and also
get everything else blueprinted and balanced.

One last question is the head gasket, would I be needing an aftermarket one
or a standard B20B?

How many more HPs with 84mm pistons would it be? Any ideas, suggestions or
comments are greatly appreciated!! Thanx Guy!!

 

I've never heard of anyone doing this. Seems like a lot of time and effort for a minimal change. What's wrong with your current setup?

Also...why are you running B16 cams instead of ITR cams?

 

B16B = CTR

Yes, everything will swap except the pistons. Here is a link to SMSP's Honda-Challenge H1 motor that was build this way. OEM pistons were used in that motor since his race series required it. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=965320

 

If you are using the Type-R crankshaft (87.2mm), you must remember that you'll be destroking the engine from 1,973cc, to 1,933cc, as the stock B20/LS crankshaft has a larger stroke (89mm). So you'll be rocking a 1.9 liter if you use Type-R internals.

With the use of PHK (B20Z) pistons (Which has the highest CR of the two B20 pistons), GSR/Type-R rods, and the B20/LS crankshaft, you could achieve right around 11:1CR with no milling, or thinner headgasket, and your displacement would still remain 1,973cc. Those numbers are with stock head thickness, and OEM headgasket size.

I'd just run the B20 crank, and have it balanced, and run some ARP rod bolts (The weak point of LS/B20 engines).

 

Thanx a lot guys!!

The reason behind the new setup are (from what I have heard & seen though)

1. B20B was not really designed for high rev runnings and if you look at the red line for CR-V (this B16+B20 Setup is very very popular here in Thailand) it's just at 6,500 rpm. Thus, endurance is an issue and I have seen a couple of blown up engines mostly from broken rods.

2. For endurance, durability and reliability (not to mention performance) do you really think it's going to be better by using B20B Crank? I really do not mind destroking down to 1,933 cc. I've been thinking that ITR stuffs are the best B-Series stuffs Honda has to offer. But if you suggest that blueprinted B20B crank is better (in terms of durability and performance) then I'm going to use it instead of ITR's crank.

3. Thanks a lot for the ARP rod bolts as suggested. And this time I think I'm going to mod the ITR head to the max, better Cams (than CTR Cams), new valve springs, retainers etc.

Last thing though, Would the new setup reach (assuming no additional mod to the existing ITR head with CTR Cams) more than 200+ whp? It's something that I actually want to achieve.

Once again, thanks for your expertise!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ferio3399 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The reason behind the new setup are (from what I have heard & seen though)

1. B20B was not really designed for high rev runnings and if you look at the red line for CR-V (this B16+B20 Setup is very very popular here in Thailand) it's just at 6,500 rpm. Thus, endurance is an issue and I have seen a couple of blown up engines mostly from broken rods.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, the weak spot on B20/LS engines, are the rod bolts. Upgrade those to ARP, and you're fine. The rods aren't the weak points.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ferio3399 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2. For endurance, durability and reliability (not to mention performance) do you really think it's going to be better by using B20B Crank? I really do not mind destroking down to 1,933 cc. I've been thinking that ITR stuffs are the best B-Series stuffs Honda has to offer. But if you suggest that blueprinted B20B crank is better (in terms of durability and performance) then I'm going to use it instead of ITR's crank.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would simply leave the B20 crankshaft, and have it machined, for added stroke... If you had it balanced, micropolished, etc. you wouldn't even notice a difference between it and the GSR/Type-R crankshaft. The Type-R crankshaft is counterweighted to improve the life of the motor... But other than that, I'd much rather have the B20 crankshaft. I'm putting an LS crankshaft in my Type-R, 1,834cc.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ferio3399 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3. Thanks a lot for the ARP rod bolts as suggested. And this time I think I'm going to mod the ITR head to the max, better Cams (than CTR Cams), new valve springs, retainers etc. </TD></TR></TABLE>
What components do you have in mind?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ferio3399 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Last thing though, Would the new setup reach (assuming no additional mod to the existing ITR head with CTR Cams) more than 200+ whp? It's something that I actually want to achieve.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not too sure about that. With some nice porting to the head, a nice intake and exhaust system, and some good tuning, you might see 200whp... I'd just go ahead and do a nice head package if I were you.

 

Check out the Toda website, they have a piston kit that uses the type R head, crank, rods, with a B20 block, along with your average LS/VTEC conversion kit. Anyways it's good info to get you started. I always figured when I put a hole in my block this is what I would go with. Sorry to lazy to post the link.

 

I finally found this thread [my own] and I have started getting all the necessary parts together.

The B20B Block has the followings;
1. JE B20B 12.5:1 Pistons & Rings
2. B20B Crank: Balanced & Micropolished
3. ITR Rods + New ITR Bearings
4. ARP Rod Bolts + Head Studs
5. ITR Waterpump + Oil Pump [New]
6. OEM 3 Layers gaskets

Do I need the blockguard?? [the one with water holes though] this seems to be what's really bothering me. From what I have read, some said use it, many said no. I wouldn't wanna re-sleeve the block though. Plz advise.

The ITR 98 Spec Head has the followings;
1. CTR+ Profile Crower Cams Stage 1 [14+ hp over B18C]
2. ITR Valve Springs + Retainers
3. ITR Intake & Fuel Rail + RC 440cc Injectors
4. 70mm Throttle [ITR Milled]
5. Walbro In-Tank Fuel Pump
6. Toda Power Belt
7. Polished Ports
8. Hondata Thermal Shield
9. Mugen 4-1 Header

Engine Management will be the FC Computer
Can I use ITR Cam Gear or Do I need new adjustable pairs?
I also don't know what else am I missing? please let me know if you can think of any. More suggestions are greatly appreciated!! I'm kinda wondering how much whp would this thing get. When everything is installed completely, I'd have it dynoed before installing in the car and re-tune again. Because I already have the factory ITR 98 Spec installed in the car already. This would be the next engine after this one wears out.

Thanks a lot in advance

The engine will be mated with JDM ITR 98 Spec transmission with Cusco LSD instead of

 

hate to burst your bubble but itr rods will not work with a b20 crank. your pistons will be sitting out of the cylinder at tdc. you need to match the rods to the crank. itr rods = itr crank and so on.

blockguards are not worth it when you have to factor in all the installation costs. you'd be better off spending that on new sleeves.

 

Personally, i would swap over the ITR rotating assembly, crank girdle, and pick up a set of these in 84 or 84.25mm https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1569878

Cheap, reliable high rpm powerband.

your choice.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally, i would swap over the ITR rotating assembly, crank girdle, and pick up a set of these in 84 or 84.25mm https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1569878

Cheap, reliable high rpm powerband.

your choice.</TD></TR></TABLE>

D is correct, the itr crank girdle or vtec crank girdle is different.....so def. use that. Also, i would use the ITR crank......If you look at the cranks in 900whp hondas usually they have stock cranks and that is the only oem honda thing left...so use the itr crank and save your money doing all kinds of stuff to the crv crank.

 

This is identical to my setup. I have a B20 with the full ITR crank,rods,oil pump, 84.5 12.5:1 JE pistons ect. I just can't decide on if I should use my CTR head or my fully built JG B16 head....anyways stay away from block guards because they create unwanted heat by the head and can cause you engine to over heat. They also cause uneven distortion on your cylinders at different temps....
Good luck on your build...the ITR crank will help fight off vibration at higher rpm's because it has a better crank/rod ratio and it has larger counter weights then a B20 or GSR .

 

Thanks a lot dood, you're much appreciated for the warning.

That's what exactly I thought initially that ITR Crank [+ everything else except the pistons] should be better overall [not to mention the tdc issue] even though I'd be destroking it down to 1,9xx something. [I wasted some $$ for balanced B20 but what the heck, I could sell it later] The only remaining question I do have [so I think] is that could I possibly use ITR's head bots & studs instead of using ARP's? I really do think I can do that [and keep ARP stuffs for future use] and also the factory bearings instead of ACL's?

I intend to keep this setup running under 9K RPM [cpu cutoff too] and on a daily basis I rarely don't even go to 7K or 8K. Thus, I can safely assume that I don't need any blockguard or re-sleeve, correct? I do wish to get an extremely reliable daily sedan beater with big *** torque and at least 200++whp

One last question [really!] Do I need adjustable cam gear? [I already got the crower cam stage 1 CTR+ profile that would work with existing ITR valves, springs and retainers.

Thanks a lot guys...

 

after reading this post, i hv questions coming up my mind.
with all the labour for a b20 and swap all the ITR internal into it with a 84mm piston (i assume using stock itr rod, crank and others) and stock head , valvetrain..etc.

is it better to just do a nice head package?? i assume they both reach around the same HP but maybe torque is better on the b20.

i am asking this cuz i heard too many stories after opening the block

 

I think at the very least it would be a 2.0L ITR engine that would have significantly increased torque and hp. I sure do hope the reliability would be the same as stock ITR too.

 

use the whole bottom end from the b20... buy after market light rods if you're a lil skeptical bout the bolts, even thou arp rod bolts work like a charm on stock rods.

the other mods would have to be realistically to what u wanna do with the engine after u have decided how to make it last and work properly... compression, cams, head pnp etc. would be determined from what u wanna go for the engine and most importantly, what u can afford