Hi there,

I want to change my pistons for some higher Compression.
But now i got this code stamped on my block.
A B B A
So i have 2 different pistons. But i want to change them without resleeving.
Is it possible to use these pistons:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWD1V

They say that those pistons can be used for oem applications.
So what do you guys think about that? And which sizes do i need to replace my old one's!
And if that is nog possible, then is it possible to replace my rings on my oem pistons?

with these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/92-2001-2-...wItem

 

if you are going to swap pistons without resleeving, run Type S, Euro R, or Sir-Spec. All are 11.0:1

 

and you will need to get them .25mm oversized since you already have some b pistons.

this will ensure that when you hone the cylinders your piston to wall clearance will not be out of spec.

 

ok, ive been wondering about this for awhile. Say you have a standard h22a1 block and your cylinder walls are still in good condition, would it be ok to just drop in the standard sized type S pistons and call it a day?

2nd, if you decided to mildy hone the cylinder walls for the standard pistons, is it possible to keep within the service limits and still use the standard piston?

 

unless this is a fresh motor that doesnt have many miles on it, the cylinder walls will be glazed, out of round, possibly some scratching and also will have some buildup around the top of the cylinders. if you simply drop in new pistons and rings, the motor will most likely run ok and may not burn much oil right away but the rings are not sealing properly and will never seat. the rings wont even be making contact w/ the cylinder wall all the way around the cylinder.

to properly seat rings you need a freshly honed cylinder wall. if you have ever had a block honed, you would know the difference right away as its night and day.

so to answer your first question, yes you could drop them in w/ out honing. but no it will not be correct and you will have to take it back apart. you will also notice the motor wont make the power and especialy the tq that it should. this is because your cylinders are not sealing properly or evenly all across.

to answer your 2nd question, no.
this is why honda offers .25 oversized pistons. mainly because a motor w/ any amount of miles on it is going to have slightly out of round cylinders and will need to be honed not only to get them all perfectly round and the same size, but also to remove the glaze as well as any scratches in the wall.

 

so what if you're already running .25 over. It's time to get a sleeved or a new block right?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pistons linked to in the first post are just advertised as standard OEM replacements. It doesn't mention anything about them being higher compression...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by darkspector2.0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so what if you're already running .25 over. It's time to get a sleeved or a new block right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

correct, unless your motor is in excellent condition from being rebuilt recently, then you could possibly do a cleanup hone, just to freshen up the cylinder walls.

but keep in mind this will still cause excessive piston to wall clearance and an excessive ring gap. i would not recommend this unless its just to get you to the track or to get you down the road temporarily.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UK_Luder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pistons linked to in the first post are just advertised as standard OEM replacements. It doesn't mention anything about them being higher compression...</TD></TR></TABLE>

i believe thats why 98vtec recommended other pistons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, ive been wondering about this for awhile. Say you have a standard h22a1 block and your cylinder walls are still in good condition, would it be ok to just drop in the standard sized type S pistons and call it a day?

2nd, if you decided to mildy hone the cylinder walls for the standard pistons, is it possible to keep within the service limits and still use the standard piston?</TD></TR></TABLE>
with the frm walls i just drop my type-s pistons in, and my engine had over 140+thousand miles.
we checked if their were any nicks or scratches in the walls and the washed them with soapy wayer and droped them in. i havent burnt one dorp of oil it the 890 miles i put on her so far

 

i heard that the frm wall are alot harder than the iron so they will not go out of round. i could be mistaken but so far i have no problems

 

did you have a machine shop measure the cylinders?

how did you remove the glaze?

what were your piston to cylinder wall clearences and ring gap?

 

to National Gear and Piston for assembling my short block. i didn't measure anything but the main and rod bearing clearence.
from what i understand he measured the rings and made sure their were between honda specs. but i never asked for them. and i was on my lunch break when we installed the pistons. we put the a with the a and the b with the b. that was it. he wanted to hone out the cylinders but i told him not to based on what a Shop forman of a Porshe race team Ren-Tech told me.
so far it worked out Great.
he just washed them out with soapy water and assembled with a ton of lube

 

the reason i ask is that i have bought several jdm motors from h motors online, and we all know they say they only have around 30k on them

everytime i had one checked, the cylinders were out of round. everyone was also glazed, and most had very minor scratches.

droping the piston into a cylinder that is even slightly out of round will cause the rings to lift from the cylinder wall. also w/out a freshly honed surface, the rings will never seat. they will just ride on top of the glaze and you will never get the bottom end to seal up as it should. this will result in power loss an in some cases oil consumption. not to mention that every piston will measure different and the cylinder has to me honed to match the piston thats going inside of it. otherwise your piston to wall clearence will be off in each cylinder and your ring gaps will also be off.

all of this will cause each cylinder to seal differently and your bottom end wont be even across.

 

im going to be building a block soon, i will be tearing down my 150XXX block and i have the tools now to measure the bore on the cylinders down to the .0001 , so i will find out for sure how much egging and out of round the cylinders get.

as i have said in the past i have talked to honda technicians that have rebuilt honda motors with FRM and high milegage and they said they just drop the new pistons and rings in.. now im not saying i would do this, but its being done in many places

 

my engine is a 97 h22a4 block, i guess i was lucky,
how out of round were the cylinder walls? beyond honda specs?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alterdcreations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> to National Gear and Piston for assembling my short block. i didn't measure anything but the main and rod bearing clearence.
from what i understand he measured the rings and made sure their were between honda specs. but i never asked for them. and i was on my lunch break when we installed the pistons. we put the a with the a and the b with the b. that was it. he wanted to hone out the cylinders but i told him not to based on what a Shop forman of a Porshe race team Ren-Tech told me.
so far it worked out Great.
he just washed them out with soapy water and assembled with a ton of lube</TD></TR></TABLE>

the motor will run ok and may never burn any oil, but it will never reach its full potental.

why didnt you want to hone the cylinders? you could have used oversized pistons and that would have even increased your displacement.

goodluck w/ it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im going to be building a block soon, i will be tearing down my 150XXX block and i have the tools now to measure the bore on the cylinders down to the .0001 , so i will find out for sure how much egging and out of round the cylinders get.

as i have said in the past i have talked to honda technicians that have rebuilt honda motors with FRM and high milegage and they said they just drop the new pistons and rings in.. now im not saying i would do this, but its being done in many places</TD></TR></TABLE>

alot of places will do that for a couple reasons. mainly because they can leave the motor in the car and only pull the head.

also because they wont have to send it to the machine shop and wait to get it back . also they wont have to pay to have it machined.

some honda dealers did this back in the day, i know because i was there.
basically it works because the average customer isnt going to notice if the power isnt what it should be, especially since the motor needed rings to begin with. and because the new rings will seal up the cylinder good enough for it not to burn oil in most cases.

this is not the correct way to build a bottom end.

 

on a b series i wouldn't just drop in

 

it doesnt matter if its iron or frm, all cylinder walls glaze over and go out of round after some miles are put on the motor. its just part of normall wear, it happens to every motor.

piston rings will not seat through glaze. they will only ride on top of it. the motor will run good, but the cylinders wont seal evenly and when varying rpms the rings will lift from the wall even if its only slightly out of round.

in worse cases the motor will not idle steady due to cylinder pressures being uneven, and a/f ratio will not be even across. the motor may also burn oil.

so far sounds like your isnt to this extent yet.

 

so far it looks like mine isn't to any extent peroid. don't jinx me man.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alterdcreations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">National Gear and Piston</TD></TR></TABLE>

did they know wut they were doin with the frm? where in ny is that shop? i wanna get my block cleaned n honed for new type s pistons but im weary about shops around here that know wut theyre doin when it comes to frm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alterdcreations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so far it looks like mine isn't to any extent peroid. don't jinx me man. </TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry, i dont mean to jinx you or anything. i give you a for trying something yourself. i did the same thing on my first build as well.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rawNAprelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

did they know wut they were doin with the frm? where in ny is that shop? i wanna get my block cleaned n honed for new type s pistons but im weary about shops around here that know wut theyre doin when it comes to frm </TD></TR></TABLE>

a good machine shop wil know how to hone frm. its not as complicated as alot of people think it is. i have had several stock frm blocks honed w/out any problems. make sure to bring it up to the machinist and ask questions. make sure you feel comfortable w/ them.

alteredcreations, i cant believe they assembled your block w/out honing it first. what did they tell you when you asked them to do that?

 

Okey, now i understand.
I have seen some type-s pistons from honda itself.
They are new, and are 0.25 oversize. But there are no rings included.
Can i just get every sort of ring for the h22? or is there difference between them?

If i got the pistons i will let my block get honed and put the type-s in.
And is it possible to run with the stock ecu? or do i need to tune it first? or replace the software with that from a JDM one or type-s one?

thnx!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mydogisgone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okey, now i understand.
I have seen some type-s pistons from honda itself.
They are new, and are 0.25 oversize. But there are no rings included.
Can i just get every sort of ring for the h22? or is there difference between them?

If i got the pistons i will let my block get honed and put the type-s in.
And is it possible to run with the stock ecu? or do i need to tune it first? or replace the software with that from a JDM one or type-s one?

thnx! </TD></TR></TABLE>

i believe the oversized pistons should come w/ rings. i havent ordered a set in a very long time so i cant say for sure.

you can still run the stock ecu.