Anyone ever seen a weld el header crack in the weld el and not in the weld. This is a high end weld el manifold that cracked in the weld el pipe itself and not at the weld. I was suprised when I saw it. It doesnt' look like the crack propogated from where the collector was welded together.

 

Wow! Did you build that, Justin?

Richard @ Ace Stainless

 

Nope, its a high end company that will go unnamed. I'm mainly curious if others have seen similar failures. The welds are still intact, but the actually weldel has began to crack. I think the crack propogated where the collector was welded together.

Justin

 

Have you seen it and can you very that it is actually a crack? I've seen both pipe and pipe fittings that have gouges in the exterior that look like that. I'm not questioning your authenticity, more-so the fact that it's nearly impossible to crack a pipe fitting in that manor without some serious effort.

 

odd-ness

 

by the looks of your signature its a lovefab manifold?

 

Could just have been poorly engineered and became stressed under heat and weight.

 

it could be from a brittle HAZ from doing too many passes over the same area or from you driving through puddles or some **** causing the metal to quench too fast and crack out.

from the pics it doesn't look like a crack as much as a gouge, which i have also seen on weld elbows.

 

I fixed a manifold for a friend that had cracked in multiple places unrelated to welds. It was 304 schedule 40. The portions that I welded stayed together, but the manifold fell apart elsewhere later. I decked the head flange 3 times over the life of that thing.

 

I made a manifold in my early days that cracked in the middle of the weld el too. I think it was HAZ related. At the time I was new to welding and I was welding with way to many amps. There was also a question of whether the guy who had the manifold used it as a pulling point to pull his motor. It looked like there was a chain marks around the manifold. I had a few local welders look at it and then think it was actually pulled apart somehow because it wasn't really near a weld and the metal looked torn. I made him another one free of charge of course. That was a long time ago and I haven't had an issue since.

 

If it was cracked I would expect to see some carbon deposit.... just looks gouged to me.

 

the old dude who welded my manifold claimed that this would eventually happen (based on his experience). I think it's just stainless being stainless. *shrug*

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the old dude who welded my manifold claimed that this would eventually happen (based on his experience). I think it's just stainless being stainless. *shrug*</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is 100% true. Any stainless manifold if put through enough heat cycles and stress will eventually crack. There are only measures we can take to give a longer life to a manifold such as thicker pipe, bracing, gussets, higher quality steel (321 for example), mild steel flanges, better quality welds...etc. They are never going to <U>prevent</U> a manifold from cracking.

 

those welds look like they have tons of undercut, which would make weak legs (edges) around the weld.

 

I'm not even sure what the hell I'm looking at. THe first two pics look like a gouge and then in the third pic to the left of said gouge there appears to be a crack in the HAZ under the weld connecting the upper left runner to the collector. Could just be my eyes playing tricks on me though. The "gouge" common to all three pics doesnt really look like a crack to me. Is it leaking? How old is the manifold?


I'm sure Cody will fix it if it's indeed made by him. He's a pretty stand up dude.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by terr1bleone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">those welds look like they have tons of undercut, which would make weak legs (edges) around the weld. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that has nothing to do with what were looking at

 

This isn't a lovefab manifold.

I haven't seen this manifold in person, just these pictures of the header cracked. It may just be a gouge though.

Justin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Olson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This isn't a lovefab manifold.

I haven't seen this manifold in person, just these pictures of the header cracked. It may just be a gouge though.

Justin</TD></TR></TABLE>

so you haven't seen this thing first hand? i'm a bit suprised, i'd never post a thread like this without seeing it with my own eyes first. it doesn't look like a crack to me, there are no signs of carbon exiting the crack. it should be sprayed all over the area adjacent to the crack, there is a tremendous amount of back pressure inside a turbo manifold and the exhaust gas will always take the easiest way out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weiRtech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so you haven't seen this thing first hand? i'm a bit suprised, i'd never post a thread like this without seeing it with my own eyes first. it doesn't look like a crack to me, there are no signs of carbon exiting the crack. it should be sprayed all over the area adjacent to the crack, there is a tremendous amount of back pressure inside a turbo manifold and the exhaust gas will always take the easiest way out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

dont hate on Justin...he said when he saw it...you interpreted it as he saw it in his hands...where actually YOU saw it and I saw it just the same...through a computer screen...doesnt make it any less real we're all a happy family...no hatin.

 

that entire manifold is almost black, my guess is that's because whoever had that manifold had a crappy tune on the car and it ran crazy hot EGTs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTErnie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dont hate on Justin...he said when he saw it...you interpreted it as he saw it in his hands...where actually YOU saw it and I saw it just the same...through a computer screen...doesnt make it any less real we're all a happy family...no hatin. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm not hating on anyone here, i just disagree with posting something to appear as fact if you didn't see it first hand with your own eyes. perhaps i shouldn't have used the or perhaps justin might have worded it more as a "hey look at this pic, does this look like a crack, i can't tell?"

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Olson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is a high end weld el manifold that cracked in the weld el pipe itself and not at the weld. I was suprised when I saw it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Truth be told I saw this on another forum, and was reposting the pictures for the "experts" like weiRdtech take a look at it.

From what I've been told, this was on the vehicle for 3000miles. The car was properly tuned and making ~400whp. The manifold was pulled along with an upgrade on the car, and this crack was spotted. It may not have fully cracked to the all the way through yet. Most cracks propagate on the surface of tubes. They don't start at the center and work there way to the outside in general.

Anyway, take these pictures for what they are, PICTURES.

 

Somebody here in this thread said to take mildsteel flanges to help prevent mainfolds from cracking.
Do you guys see a big difference in the lifespan of a good welded manifold when you compare mild with stainless flanges?

Since I use 321elbows, 321collectors and 321flanges and changed my build procedure I never had a problem with cracking.
So what are your experiences?

Justin:
I saw such a crack a long time ago. It seemed to come from a stressed runner. in the moment when I made such an expansion cut into the head flange the rummer "jumped" some mm to the right. (hope you ca understand what I want to say. I canīt express it better in english)
So we decided to throw it away insetad of fixing it for a friend

 

vibrations will cause cracks like that in stainless..

more stress on the piece will also contribute to it..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-Rok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that has nothing to do with what were looking at</TD></TR></TABLE>

i was talking about at the merge, where they go into the collector.. it looks to me like it has a lot to do with it.