For those cars that require "spec" flywheels, we will be requiring teardowns at some NASA-MA regional races. Illegal flywheels will be confiscated at a minimum.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">confiscated.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where in the CCR does it say NASA can confiscate anything?

 

Any driver failing to properly prepare his/her car as required by the tech sheet may be subject to license revocation, monetary fines, disqualification, or other penalties. All competition vehicles will be subject to random safety inspections at any time while at the race facility. If, at any time, illegal, non-conforming, missing, or outdated safety equipment is found in or on the car, that equipment (in its entirety) will become the property of NASA. Additionally, the driver will be fined fifty ($50) dollars for each separate offense. Subsequent offenses during the same season will double the penalty each time. NASA reserves the right to make the penalties more severe should the situation warrant.

 

I know you helped write the rules, but that looks to only cover saftey equipment.

 

The question was where does NASA have to confiscate anything? The answer to that is safety equipment, so there is a precedent.

You are correct that the statement covers safety equipment. I will talk to Jerry about non-safety items.

In any case, penalties will be strict. If confiscation is allowed, legal drivers should have no concern.

 

Gotcha

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You are correct that the statement covers safety equipment. I will talk to Jerry about non-safety items.

In any case, penalties will be strict.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would guess that that will be a very short conversation with Jerry. Something along the lines of "Do it."

NorCal has a very good system for fine monies being donated to the Red Cross. Seems like proceeds from the eBay sale of illegal parts could follow the same example....

 

A Flywheel can be considered a safety item considering a # of them have to go through sfi certs

 

is there even a NASA racing class were a Honda can NOT use an aftermarket flywheel? It's ok in HC, and in PT, and I think that's all the classes we can run in....thus it really does not matter to us Honda guys.

 

The catch in HC is that the flywheel must fit an OEM clutch. i.e. no 7.25" or 5.5" racing clutches. I know Fidanza used to make flywheels to fit 7.25" Tilton clutches on a Honda. Tilton even has a twin plate 7.25" clutch package for B and H series engines. Those would certainly be illegal in HC.

 

It would be nice if SCCA would start confiscating illegal items in Spec Miata. This would really set a nice precedent.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The catch in HC is that the flywheel must fit an OEM clutch. i.e. no 7.25" or 5.5" racing clutches. I know Fidanza used to make flywheels to fit 7.25" Tilton clutches on a Honda. Tilton even has a twin plate 7.25" clutch package for B and H series engines. Those would certainly be illegal in HC. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hehe. I tend to think so people run them in HC too!
Not me of course, unless ACT started making some super special clutch for my CRX that I don't know about!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The catch in HC is that the flywheel must fit an OEM clutch. i.e. no 7.25" or 5.5" racing clutches. I know Fidanza used to make flywheels to fit 7.25" Tilton clutches on a Honda. Tilton even has a twin plate 7.25" clutch package for B and H series engines. Those would certainly be illegal in HC. </TD></TR></TABLE>

here are the 2007 HC rules regarding flywheels and clutches:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">7.5 Transmission and Driveline
a) The flywheel may be replaced with others of unrestricted origin, provided it is the same diameter as stock and would accommodate a stock clutch and pressure plate. (See item b) as well.)
b) The clutch and pressure plate may be replaced with others of unrestricted origin so long as the pressure plate would bolt to a unmodified OEM flywheel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i know it has to be possible to have a 5.5" race clutch attached to an unmodified oem flywheel. now we are only talking about what modifications you would have to make to that systems pressure plate, etc. to have it use the stock mounting points.

nowhere do the rules say it must be stock diameter. only that it would "accomodate" the stock one.

there is likely more room here than we might be using.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tom91ita &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

nowhere do the rules say it must be stock diameter. only that it would "accomodate" the stock one.

there is likely more room here than we might be using.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just remember, the rules were written by "real" people. If you do something to skate by them that you interpret as legal, someone else in a "decision making" position just might happen to disagree with you at a certain race!

I certainly don't think it's worth it to chance something of this nature at this point in time. To much can be lost over what is gained!

 

i don't see what i suggested has anything to do with "skating" around the rules.

the rules are fairly clearly written and using smaller clutch discs and smaller pressure plates that bolt up to stock mounting points are allowed.

if we want to limit discs and pressure plates to stock diameters, then so state (like it does so clearly for the flywheel) .

but please don't use words like "unrestricted" and then threaten confiscation.

grumpy, my apologies for the hijack since your original posting is not really pertinent to HC and your notification is much appreciated!

 

i don't really see how that would be possible. It is my under standing that to run a smaller clutch/pp you have to also run a smaller flywheel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't really see how that would be possible. It is my under standing that to run a smaller clutch/pp you have to also run a smaller flywheel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The flywheels would have to remain the same size regardless at least in diameter so that it can contact the starter

 

The only people that need to worry about confiscation are cheaters. Why is everyone so concerned?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only people that need to worry about confiscation are cheaters. Why is everyone so concerned?</TD></TR></TABLE>


not sure I plan on using a factory clutch with a lightened flywheels or just a simple act setup, although it would have been nice to use the tilton setup i had it was unecessary

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't really see how that would be possible. It is my under standing that to run a smaller clutch/pp you have to also run a smaller flywheel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

a stock diameter flywheel can still be fitted with a smaller diameter clutch that could still have the ability to mount a stock pressure plate. it might become complicated but where there is a will and a talented fabricator, there just might be a way.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/to...359/2

Grumpy, i am not concerned about what you have proposed as much as i am concerned that prkiller said that
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">someone else in a "decision making" position </TD></TR></TABLE>
could deem something the rules clearly states is "unrestricted" and implies that they could confiscate it.

i am from the "if the rules say i can do it, then i can darn well do it" camp of rules interpretation even if i can't afford it.

again, sorry about the hijack.

 

The statement said if you are required to use a spec flywheell, HC does not. So the comment does not apply to HC. Other people read this board.

 

i think people are more concerned with the type of message this is, it's blanted, its over stepping the bonderies of normal discourse. You can't take whats mine, reguardless oh what you are, pretty much goes for anything and anyone.

of course cheaters need to be delt with, but when you say your going to take something of mine, well.. your not.

 

why is everyone concerned with this? Just don't cheat and there are no problems.

I support the confiscateion of Illegal parts(esp if they can be hidden, like in a motor). And people that are multipul offenders get fines..

 

I second that. ^
No excuse for cheaters

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prkiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...Just remember, the rules were written by "real" people. If you do something to skate by them that you interpret as legal, someone else in a "decision making" position just might happen to disagree with you at a certain race!...</TD></TR></TABLE>

That could be a real problem. "someone else in a "decision making" position" who happens to be racing against you, who happens to have the power to do just about anything they want...