I'd like to thank JG luder for your info on the N/A thread and would like too ask you guys a question of my own... I've decided to do things the hard way so this is how it is first off I'd like too ask you if 220 WHP is achivable with this setup..... (I've bought everything and the motor is in the making)

Crower Stage 2 Cams
Crower Springs&Retainers
Crower SS Valves I&E
Crower Cam gears
Mild Port & Polished Head 3 angle Valve job
Type S Pistons (11:1) w/milled head 11:5:1
Eagle ESP rods
70mm TB
440 DSM injectors
AEM FPR
Holly fuel pump
Hondata Heatsheild Gasket
AEM CAI
DC 4-2-1 header
Carsound High Flow Cat
Thermal R&D Classic
p72 OBD 1 ECU w/Skunk 2 harness
Hondata Stage 3 EMS

What kind of # were you running(JG luder)? Will I need new headbolts or can I reuse the ones I have? ThX for the input...

P.S. I will be upgrading the exhaust system as soon as SMSP starts making the H22 Header... 2.5 inch is perfect for this app..

[Modified by 96SR-V, 1:49 AM 5/18/2002]


[Modified by 96SR-V, 12:04 PM 5/18/2002]

 

no

 

I beleive Sun Dang hit 190-190ish WHP in his 5G Lude with a OBD 1 swap, Type S pistons and cams, Spoon SW388s and some other stuff that I cant remember...maybe LSD, ITR TB and Hondata.

There was also some guy on clubsi goes by NoIzE that was close to breaking 185-190 WHP until he sold his Lude and parted everything out. He had a setup similar to Sun Dangs.


[Modified by BlueShadow, 8:31 AM 5/18/2002]

 

Don't you mean stoplight grandma?

 

ComtechGSR

Can you elaborate perhaps? Maybe tell me what else I would need too acomplish this?

I know there is a fifth gen here that I saw on the dyno hit 196whp with just headers exhaust and Crower Stage 2's, hondata. No headwork, stock compression (10:1),stock injectors.


[Modified by 96SR-V, 12:11 PM 5/18/2002]

 

You will most likely NOT hit the 220 WHP mark with this setup. I'm not even sure that's possible for a streetable H22.

First off you'll need a high end port and polish job of not just the cylinders, but of the intake/exhaust ports, larger valve ports, and intake manifold. Instead of the Crower valves you'll probably have to get a Ferra valveset. If you're going to do this soon, I'd recommend that you get the Euro-R intake manifold, but if you're going to do this after 6 months, get the Skunk2 intake manifold. Either way, get the manifold ported for optimal flow for your goals. The stock intake manifold on the H22A sucks as the flow has to make a 90 degree turn and you do not need the secondary runners if you're not planning on a low low end torque monster. Overall the whole design of the stock manifold sucks.

Also, I would not use the Type-S pistons. They have not proven themselves as a good performance piston. Personally I'd recommend the Endyn rollerwave piston (I know you don't like them JG) as I've seen very good results with them and then you don't need to mess too much with milling the head since you can use the piston to get the correct compression ratio.

Depending on your goals, you MAY need a set of custom rods made to fit your R/S ratio depending on how high you're planning to rev the engine to. Regardless I wouldn't push it above 8500 rpm MAX regardless of what you do. If you don't change the R/S ratio then 8000 rpm would be the max I'd throw it to, plus unless you get a set of custom cams ground you probably won't make power above that anyway.

Lastly I wouldn't even bother buying the DC header. It's a piece of trash, and all the dyno's that I've seen prove it. If you're going to do this right, you'll be done probably around the time SMS or HyTech has a header for the H22 (if they do come out). If you want some proof about the DC, check PO.com and they have some listings of the ID of the tubing. It's no bigger than stock and the collector is just as bad as stock. If you DO get the DC header at least get it modified by Import Builders which I believe they redo the entire collector. For the exhaust, make sure it's 2 1/2 all the way though since most of them will be 60mm from the cat to the resonator and then after the resonator hit their listed ID. If you can't find one, just have SMS or a local exhaust shop build one for you. Since you're looking for such high power out of a N/A motor you can't skimp anywhere.

Then the most important part, tuning, tuning, and even more tuning.

If you're really interested in doing this project contact William Howell aka 71DSP since he was planning upon taking upon a similar project with his Prelude before he dropped the project. He's a lot more knowledgeable than myself. And JG is a great source too.

But make sure that you have all the goals outlined before you start the project. Since with this project it'll entail more than you have listed, most likely a flywheel, clutch, LSD, engine mounts, J&S Safegaurd, maybe an ignition, a few gauges, etc. Just make sure that you're really prepared to jump into this project.

~Doug

 

Well I don't really wont too sleeve my block to run different pistons, and the DC header is going on until the SMS header is available (and yes you can get the hytech already) I did notice the DC header looks just like the stock one except silver, that pissed me off...

Anyways I do appreciate any suggestion you guys will have too acheive my goals... Does anyone know what kind of number JG luder was running?

 

dont listen to comptechgsr, he is a fudge packer and doesnt know a thing when talking about h22a's. He likes to pack fudge and wish his gsr was fast, but it aint.

 

If you don't want to sleeve the block don't bother getting the Type-S pistons then if you're going to mil as well. Get your cylinders honed and use the OEM oversized piston, I forget the size of it. But overall I haven't seen any proof (I've yet to see bother side to side though) that the Type-S piston is any better other than raising the compression a point. Since if you're going to increase compression by milling, save yourself some money and get US OEM. Plus I wouldn't run at anything higher than 11.5-12:1 MAX for a street motor anyway unless you plan on boosting the octane all the time. I'm not sure where you live, but don't go above 11-11.5 if 93 isn't readily available (California sucks... )

If the HyTech header is available (I wasn't aware of this, I instead got a Mugen since I didn't want to wait any longer) go and get that. I'm sure that most can vouch that HyTech's work and designs are on par with SMS. If you want to give SMS the business, just stick with your stock header since the DC one will NOT help in any way shape or form. It'll just look "pretty" for about 3-5 months until the coating starts to rust/fall off.

You might also want to balance your crank so you take off the balancers and knife edge it at the same time. It's probably good for 3-5 whp and since you're taking apart the block already it's a good idea. You may also (depending on the purpose of the build) want to get an electric power steering pump since that will free up some hp since your alternator has the capacity to handle that easily. Get some pullies as well (not the crank pulley unless you get the Fisher concepts one). Other than that, the rest of the mods that you'll have to make are maintence mods. Catch can, larger radiator, baffled oil pan, etc, etc. It all depends upon what you want the car to be in the end. A drag car, street / race car, or whatever.

~Doug

 

U can use the type s pistons on a STOCK h22a block.Its better to get the .25mm oversize and have your block overbored to fit these pistons....Follow the helms specs.!!And make dam sure the shop that is gonna overbore the block knows what the hell they are doin.If your gonna sleeve the block,then forged pistons would be better.220 whp is somewhere in the ballpark of 260 + hp to the flywheel...That is alot of hp for a NA set-up on a h22.Probably a better rod to stroke ratio would be in order with a resleeved block for some 88-89mm pistons.lightened knife egded crank,aftermarket rods,lighter flywheel,And maybe even some individual throttle bodies to top off the whole combo with more than just a mild porting job to the head.Crower stage 2'sWill probably not work too well.And this is just the engine only.I hope you are not plannin on making it a daily driver


[Modified by aeolus, 11:12 AM 5/20/2002]

 

I've got stock size pistons for the rebuilt so he's not boring the walls just a light resurface. (is this not good? for ring seal?) I don't really think I'll hit 220WHP but I'm hoping for close too 210? While I'm waiting for the SMS header I'm having the shitty DC collector changed to a 2.5" collector, and I'll still wait for the Skunk IM.

 

Do yourself a favor, add up how much all that stuff is gonna cost...then realize the insanity and put it towards a better car.

 

I've already added the cost, actually I've already paid it..Why don't you just post somewhere else if you don't have anything constructive to add? If I wanted too go really fast I would have turboed my car.. I'm thinking of setting up an auto x car for next year...


[Modified by 96SR-V, 7:42 PM 5/20/2002]

 

If you don't mind low ground clearence, and chopping up your subframe, the 4-1 SMS can be built.. I am serious about the ground clearence part, my car is not lowered much, and already I have slightly dented the header...

 

I'll have too wait as ground clearance is a concern.

 

i think it's pretty widely accepted about now that the crower stage 2's aren't gonna give you huge numbers.

as for the 196whp 5th gen. above, i'd really like to see that. not doubting, but i've seen plenty of people disappointed so far with their crowers.


i think you're missing the key here. 220whp really isn't important with the h22a. the useable power is of more importance. don't concentrate on peak power too much. concentrate on getting the torque up and having useable power with a good set of cams.

but at this point with the skunk 2's just recently available i'd wait to see some more solid numbers for cams.

a friend locally with a 5th gen. and obd1 swap is pushing almost 190whp. he's running a p72 gsr ecu, fpr, dc headers, aem cai, vafc, cat-back, still has cat on the car, type s cams. he's run a best of 14.1@97+mph at the track. this is a 5th gen.

 

I'll let you know my numbers and maybe go into my mechanics and get a printout of this guys car. OBD 1 Swap, Mugen Header, Mugen Exhaust Crower 2's w/valvetrain and Hondata Stage 2 196 WHP? I saw it... Maybe I'll be able too get it?

 

If you are interested, My (stock displacement) H22a was putting 194hp/152tq with these mods: Portflow head, Web cams/springs/retainers, Custom ECU (UPRD), and a Field VTEC controller, STOCK BLOCK. The power you are looking for is possible, but you must go up in compression close to 12/1 to make the most use of the cams (JGluder might want to explain the relationship between high lift/duration cams and compression in your NA guide). If you really want to get the 220 Hp mark, I have done it. My "stroker" has laid down 229.6HP and 175 TQ. This is a diaily driver. This was very expensive to do. So far the car has been a lot of fun to drive IF you want more info you can check out http://www.collectiveracing.net or PM me.

 

I think a stroker kit will get you the low end you want for auto-X, along with the top end power.

My vote goes to stroker.

 

for the people that think that 220 WHP NA is not possible, click this link http://www.preludeonline.com/showthr...threadid=66068

 

BDB's (above setup) car was dyno tuned (214WHP) at the same shop I get my work done at... This is why I think 220WHP is acheiveable... He's almost there w/ less mods than me.. Although his header and exhaust are of much better quality than my DC...

 

220 whp is possible. Maybe not that exact setup, but it's very possible, and on a streetable car. I don't like milling the head as a main source of gaining compression. It's messes with the timing components too much.

High compression pistons, rods, serious headwork, cams, boltons, and God as a co-pilot.

My car was streetable. But only by my deffinition. It had a tag and insurance. LOL To each his own.

 

You might wanna contact Darryn from R&D Dyno in Gardena, CA. He has a few tricks up his sleeve. In case you're wondering who he is, he's the one who built J. Lookofsky's/L'Natural motor.

 

hmm, i guess it realy depends on the dyno facility. i know of a few people running the crower 2's with disappointing results. one guy locally has the complete valvetrain with cams, i/h/e, cam gears and did 177whp or so. no vafc.

another friend in california with no vafc and the same mods with only baseline figures did 170whp.

just seems like people aren't making the power with the crowers. now all of the sudden the same shop has some good numbers coming out.

post the dynos when you have the chance.

 

Hey TimeRacer
What is this fisher concepts crank pulley,I have never heard of this.You have any info on this.Any help would be great