Alright. Riddle me this.

225/45/17 - 25.3 lbs, REINFORCED
235/40/17 - 24.3 lbs, NOT reinforced

What gives? What's reinforced? The sidewall? Will I gain stiffness at the expense of weight?

The 235/40's will have better gearing, but will I be sacraficing sidewall stiffness?

Or how about this:

215/45/17 - 23.1 lbs, NOT reinforced
215/40/17 - 21.2 lbs, REINFORCED

Wtf Falken? How is the reinforced, shorter tire 2 lbs lighter? I'm sure this chart isn't accurate either (225/50/16 has more RPM's than a 215/45/16)...so that doesn't help things.

Size chart here: http://www.falkentire.com/rt615_sizes.html

 

Reinforced sides are good for cornering. The only time you really want flex from the sidewalls during racing applications is at a drag strip. So what do u plan on using these tires fors? I personally would go with the reinforced sides. That 1lb difference is not going to harm you in a noticable way.

 

So buyers of a 215/45/17 tire (not reinforced) may have a totally different opinion/feel of the tire than a buyer of a 225/45/17 (which is reinforced)? That seems odd for Falken to do that. Maybe I'm just loony and nitpicky.

This is for maybe half a dozen autocrosses, maybe one or two HPDE days, and 5000 miles street. I doubt I'll be able to get much more.

 

if you are going to autocross, def. get reinforced sides then. I dont know if that specs sheet is accurate. it does seem a bit odd for that size to not have reinforced sides. call falken and hear it from them!

 

well this ******* blows.. .
I was going to order 215/45/16s for this year but I guess those aren't reinforced.. .

I'm really wondering what all is in the reinforcement????

I'm looking at the table and I am seeing that many of the TALL and very SHORT sidewalled tires have the reinforcement... Maybe Falken seems to think the Medium sidewall tires do not need it??

 

<U>Email I sent to Falken</U>

I am a SCCA Autocross Racer and I also run Road Courses for 25-30 minutes sessions. I am currently using either Hankook Ventus RS2 Z212 tires in a 205/45/16 or R compound Race tires depending on what I am doing. This is on a Honda Civic with 210whp/156trq. The Hankooks are okay but I heard Falkens are much stickier. This is good news for you guys.

What I am concerned with in going to your 215/45/16 is that on your website ( http://www.falkentire.com/rt615_sizes.html ) I see that your 215/45/16 does not have a reinforced sidewall.. . This is deterring me away from your tire.

If you could, help me out with these questions please:
1.) Tell me the difference between the non-reinforced and the reinforced sidewalls.
2.) Why do certain sizes not have reinforcement?
3.) If I still decide to go with the 215/45/16 - what side effects is the tire going to have with high cornering loads? Am I going to loose grip sooner than using say the 205/50/15??
4.) When will you guys have a wider 15" sizes??? All of us FWD guys need more grip!

Thank you very much.. .

<U>Email reply back from Falken - Tim Widener - Product Engineer</U>

Ryan,

Our 215/45R16 RT-615 does not have the reinforced spec. The “reinforced” refers to the Tires load carrying capacity only. Also referred to sometimes as an “extra load tire”.

A tire with a reinforced spec may handle just the same as a tire with-out this spec. The side wall construction- such as turn-up plies, bead apex, and sidewall stiffener would change the sidewall stiffness and the way a tire performs.

The Falken RT-615, in the 215/45R16 size has the same load carrying capacity (load index of 86) as the Hankook.

No plans to add new sizes to our RT-615 pattern at this time. If this is the size you need- recommend purchasing a set. If you read some of the reviews, this tire offers exceptional dry traction!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Widener - Product Engineer

Technical Department - Falken Tire Corporation

direct: 1-800-723-2553 ext.441

email: TWidener@falkentire.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

lol. So he says nothing basically.

"may handle just the same"...

 

I take his reply that the tire just has a little more rubber in the side than some of the other sizes b/c they need it.. . not b/c they are designed to be superior to the other sizes.. .
Think about it,
large sidewall height - needs reiforcement cuz it will be a sloppy wet noodle without it.
Small height - if I hit a bump at 30psi in the tire, I'm gonna bend a rim, I better up the stiffness.. .

The sidewall ratings are hard to find for falken tires.

I hear about a 90 is pretty stiff and great for a high performance street tire for road course racing.

Sti and Evo owners love their stock 225/45/17s in the Bridgestone RE070 and they have 91 rating sidewalls with 3200+lbs of sliding thunder around the courses.. .

Needless to say, I still think I am ordering the 215/45/16 RT-615.. . The 205 Kooks just don't grip enough.. .

 

I think you are misreading what Tim's trying to say. What I got from it is this- 'reinforcement' and sidewall stiffness are two totally separate things and at least in this case they have nothing to do with each other.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you are misreading what Tim's trying to say. What I got from it is this- 'reinforcement' and sidewall stiffness are two totally separate things and at least in this case they have nothing to do with each other. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you are wrong.

His reply to me: A tire with a reinforced spec may handle just the same as a tire with-out this spec. The side wall construction- such as turn-up plies, bead apex, and sidewall stiffener would change the sidewall stiffness and the way a tire performs.

His wording only implicates that when designing different sizes of tire, certain sizes are going to be designed proportionately different in areas than others giving them the "Reinforced" name and larger load capabilities. He's not saying that there is a Kevlar belt added, just more of what is already in the tire's original design.

I take that the Reinforcement spec adds more of what is already there to the base tire design.. . He is saying that when the tire includes the "Reinforced" spec, it only means that it has been reinforced above and beyond the normal tire design and should not change the handling properties. This means that the NON-REINFORCED tire design is NOT adversely effected or an inferior design.

Other than a shitty structured reply, his answer is not phrased in to be a finite answer to the difference b/t reinforced and non.

It's almost like the guy(Tim) has no idea how to reply back to exact questions. I hate that! This is me speaking from an Engineers perspective.. . My Engineering proffessors would have harped on him for that reply. I'm not that best at English either though.. .

 

if you look at this table
http://www.falkentire.com/rt615_sizes.html

Notice the collumn load/speed

205/50/15 = 89W
the 215/45/16 = 86W Meaning my sidewall will be more flimsy
the 205/40/16 = 83W Says "Reinforced" pretty mushy compared to the above tires

Though not "REINFORCED" the 225/50/16 tire has a 92W spec which would be considered a pretty stiff sidewall for any tire.. .

Looking at Toyo RA1s
http://www.toyo.com/docs/tires...sport

The 205/50/15 actually has a lower MAX load rating than the Falken.. . 1135 vs 1279.. . I would have no experience with the two so I can't say which is stiffer.. . I'm probably going to have to say the Toyo probably is stiffer even though the Max Load #s would imply a different story.. .


Modified by 6spdKEG at 3:00 PM 2/2/2007

 

honestly, i really don't think you will notice a difference if it is reinforced or not, the sidewalls are already stiff as stiff can get for a street tire. also it is hard to compare ratings with different brands. all you need to do is check your pressure to see if you are rolling over and keep the azenis cool after each run.

 

I'm just going by the falken guy's reply... I'm not trying to implicate proportionally different capabilities in an adversely effected finite structure.

Just email the guy back and ask him to make it clearer.

 

He replied back and said that I am correct.. . it was a short response with little detail from him.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rice r0cket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright. Riddle me this.
225/45/17 - 25.3 lbs, REINFORCED
235/40/17 - 24.3 lbs, NOT reinforced
What gives? What's reinforced? The sidewall? Will I gain stiffness at the expense of weight?
The 235/40's will have better gearing, but will I be sacraficing sidewall stiffness?
Or how about this:
215/45/17 - 23.1 lbs, NOT reinforced
215/40/17 - 21.2 lbs, REINFORCED


Size chart here: http://www.falkentire.com/rt615_sizes.html</TD></TR></TABLE>

What size rims do you have?

If you are running over a 8" wide rim, I would personally go with the 235/40 if you are b/t the top two tires. It has a 90W stiffness rating which is pretty stiff and doesn't look like a truck tire like the 225/45.. . the 215/40 front would match the 235 for stagger.. .

the 215/45 and 225/45 go together for staggered but it's not big of difference b/t the two tires.. .

I'd be trying to rock 235/40s front and 255/40s rear if I had an S2000.

 

lol, I asked him this last month. See if this helps! My original question is at the bottom. Read that and go up.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Todd,


The reinforcement spec would be for the molded inner liner to hold the higher pressures.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Tim Widener - Product Engineer
Technical Department - Falken Tire Corporation
direct: 1-800-723-2553 ext.441
email: TWidener@falkentire.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:37 AM
To: Tim Widener
Subject: RE: Azenis RT-615 Reinforcement

Tim,

Thanks for the reply. Excuse my ignorance, but is this reinforcement in the sidewall? I assume this would mean the tire has slightly stiffer sidewalls.

Thanks,
Todd

&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Todd,
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; The reinforced spec refers to the tires load carrying
&gt; capacity. A reinforced spec tire will carry slightly more weight at 6
&gt; psi higher pressure then a standard load Tire.
&gt;
&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------
&gt; ----
&gt;
&gt; Tim Widener - Product Engineer
&gt;
&gt; Technical Department - Falken Tire Corporation
&gt;
&gt; direct: 1-800-723-2553 ext.441
&gt;
&gt; email: TWidener@falkentire.com
&gt;
&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; -----Original Message-----
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:20 AM
&gt;
&gt; To: mail
&gt;
&gt; Subject: Azenis RT-615 Reinforcement
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Falken,
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; On your spec sheet for the Azenis RT-615, I noticed some sizes are
&gt;
&gt; 'Reinforced', and some are not. Can you describe to me what (and
where)
&gt;
&gt; this reinforcement is?
&gt;

</TD></TR></TABLE>