Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,899
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From: atlanta, ga, usa
Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s
Chunky and i tested the IPS k2s and the skunk2 stage2s this past weekend on his personal motor.
Motor Specs:
K20A2
CP 12.5:1 Pistons
Eagle Rods
ACL Race Bearings
RBC Intake
MSPi/TDF CAI
Borla Header 2.5in collector
MSPi/TDF Custom 3in exhuast
We originally had tons of graphs, different cam angles, lots more information, but someone leaked the test results to Omniman and he posted them before we could finalize our presentation. Here it is:
PICS:
FINAL GRAPH
Commentary from CHUNKY:
VTEC on the K2s was dropped to 5000rpm and should probably have been set even lower, but tuning time was limited in the interests of fairness. Both of these graphs are from the same day - Sunday - in the same rainy and dismal weather. The leaked dyno plots reflect the K2 dyno from Saturday and reflects the highest numbers seen from the K2s. The numbers from the K2s from both days are within 1hp of one another so the performance of the motor was consistent. Most of the tuning efforts were on the VTEC maps. I assumed that is what would be of primary interest. Since I was time limited it would have been impossible for me to nail everything down on the non VTEC maps as well.
IPS K2:
- Liked things around 13.3:1 in the low to mid revs. After peak power, leaning out helps them sustain power production. To avoid a/f related squabbles, I simply targeted both cams for the same a/f.
- Liked a low VTEC. Great for street driving and road course.
- Tricky to tune the VTEC on this particular engine setup. There is probably more power to be had in the midrange if the a/f was smoothed. I wanted to tune more, but limited myself in the interest of fairness to both manufacturers.
- Peak power was realized at 40deg advance. 40 deg made more power than all the other cam angles in VTEC. The low cam had quite a bit of cam angle action which made the VTEC x/o particularly difficult to tune.
- 50deg VTEC maps were not tuned due to clearance concerns.
Skunk2 StageII:
- Leaner makes more power. After 14:1 a/f, I had to pull timing which offset any gains.
- 5800rpm VTEC. Rather high, but it has a very cool sound to it. Kind of like a mini sonic boom delivered with rifle bolt precision. Only drawback is that unless you are wringing the car out, you will fall out of VTEC frequently. Of course, that means you get to hear the VTEC kick over and over which, to some, isn't a bad thing. The crossover was tuned VERY well. It comes on amazingly smooth and shows in the plot.
- Made peak power on 30deg in VTEC. Low cam utilized 30deg extensively as well. This seems to reflect Skunk2's preference for fixed cam gears (30deg in VTC is somewhat analogous to "zero" on a fixed cam gear.
- 50deg VTEC maps were not tuned due to clearance concerns.
Each cam has it's strengths, but the IPS K2s hold their advantage from 5500 to 8000rpm. Considering all the hoopla regarding the fairness of comparing a 2 year old cam profile to the newer Skunk2 profile, the IPS product is aging gracefully. The Skunk2 team also deserves credit for putting a solid cam on the market at an excellent price point. I'm certain that many of you rank purchase price as a key factor, and in that department it's tough to beat Skunk2.
Competition between two manufacturers has never been a bad thing. In the end, the consumer benefits from the struggle for supremacy. Hats off to both Skunk2 and IPS for providing us with two excellent options for our beloved K-series motors. I'm certainly looking forward to what both of them have in store for the future!
I'd like to thank Signalpuke and Skunk2 for providing the cam hardware used in this test, Mainstream performance for providing the shop space and dyno time to make this happen, Nikos for providing us with a great free service, and anyone who took the time to read and comment on what we've done with this project. It's amazing how this went from a round of internet smack talk into a real and legitimate comparison in less than a month.
Some other questions I wanted to address:
- We installed the K2s + valve springs on Saturday night. This was not done to give the IPS product any special advantages. It was a matter of logistics as time has to be allotted for the unexpected. It should not matter what day the cams were tuned as long as the dyno plots taken for comparison are from the same day under similar conditions. All dyno pulls were done well after sundown so that air temps would be consistent.
- The general tuning procedure was to tune each cam angle map from 00-50deg. Then create a composite map. This was done for the low cam and VTEC. The two composite maps were then overlaid to determine VTEC. After that point, the tune was smoothed and optimized for power. Really just your basic k-series tuning philosophy, nothing special. This was done for both cam makers.
- The Borla header did not prove to be as much of a limiting factor as was feared. To make 220+ SAE on Mainstream's dyno is quite an accomplishment for an N/A motor. A better header would have benefited both cam setups. Similarly, the use of an exhaust cam gear to dial in the overlap as well as the use of 8620 steel cams would have benefited both cams.
- The Skunk2 cams were making peak power with the 14:1 A/F. The IPS cams were making more power with a richer A/F but I leaned them out knowing in advance that the Skunk cams liked things lean. This was later verified when tuning of the Skunk2's began. I anticipated that people would question why one cam was lean and the other rich so I just targeted 14:1 based on prior experience with tuning Skunk2's and IPS's products.
The K2 dynos were also consistent with a dyno tuning session earlier that week. This individual had bought his cams over 6 months ago.
Curve has the same general shape - should be no surprise. Same installer, same tuner, same dyno, same intake manifold, same grind of the k2 cams. I just made more HP than he did due to the higher compression, and better exhaust/intake setup.
The conclusion is that there was no update the K2 profiles for this test. The profiles are the same now as they were nearly 3 years ago when they first hit the market.
RETAIL PRICE
*note* the cams we tested were NOT THE NEW 8620 CORES that IPS NOW SELLS. We tested the old DUCTILE Cams because it was impossible to find an 8620 camshaft. The retail pricing reflects the 8620 cams, NOT THE CAMS WE TESTED which were sold cheaper and are not longer TECHNICALLY available. the New 8620 is a new material but the same profile as the old ductile grind. Profiles are the SAME, material is different which is the reason for the price increase
IPS :
8620 billet steel. MSRP for all applications ground on the 8620 cores - $1600.00. Eibach EVS - $419.00 retail. Titanium retainers - $270.00 retail. Product is available through IPS-PDN: Premiere Distribution Network only. Contact authorized dealers for sales inquires.
SKUNK2:
Stage 2 Camshafts $797.95
valvsprings $374.06
Retainers $195.51
Authorized skunk2 dealer network found on SKUNK2.COM
Motor Specs:
K20A2
CP 12.5:1 Pistons
Eagle Rods
ACL Race Bearings
RBC Intake
MSPi/TDF CAI
Borla Header 2.5in collector
MSPi/TDF Custom 3in exhuast
We originally had tons of graphs, different cam angles, lots more information, but someone leaked the test results to Omniman and he posted them before we could finalize our presentation. Here it is:
PICS:
FINAL GRAPH
Commentary from CHUNKY:
VTEC on the K2s was dropped to 5000rpm and should probably have been set even lower, but tuning time was limited in the interests of fairness. Both of these graphs are from the same day - Sunday - in the same rainy and dismal weather. The leaked dyno plots reflect the K2 dyno from Saturday and reflects the highest numbers seen from the K2s. The numbers from the K2s from both days are within 1hp of one another so the performance of the motor was consistent. Most of the tuning efforts were on the VTEC maps. I assumed that is what would be of primary interest. Since I was time limited it would have been impossible for me to nail everything down on the non VTEC maps as well.
IPS K2:
- Liked things around 13.3:1 in the low to mid revs. After peak power, leaning out helps them sustain power production. To avoid a/f related squabbles, I simply targeted both cams for the same a/f.
- Liked a low VTEC. Great for street driving and road course.
- Tricky to tune the VTEC on this particular engine setup. There is probably more power to be had in the midrange if the a/f was smoothed. I wanted to tune more, but limited myself in the interest of fairness to both manufacturers.
- Peak power was realized at 40deg advance. 40 deg made more power than all the other cam angles in VTEC. The low cam had quite a bit of cam angle action which made the VTEC x/o particularly difficult to tune.
- 50deg VTEC maps were not tuned due to clearance concerns.
Skunk2 StageII:
- Leaner makes more power. After 14:1 a/f, I had to pull timing which offset any gains.
- 5800rpm VTEC. Rather high, but it has a very cool sound to it. Kind of like a mini sonic boom delivered with rifle bolt precision. Only drawback is that unless you are wringing the car out, you will fall out of VTEC frequently. Of course, that means you get to hear the VTEC kick over and over which, to some, isn't a bad thing. The crossover was tuned VERY well. It comes on amazingly smooth and shows in the plot.
- Made peak power on 30deg in VTEC. Low cam utilized 30deg extensively as well. This seems to reflect Skunk2's preference for fixed cam gears (30deg in VTC is somewhat analogous to "zero" on a fixed cam gear.
- 50deg VTEC maps were not tuned due to clearance concerns.
Each cam has it's strengths, but the IPS K2s hold their advantage from 5500 to 8000rpm. Considering all the hoopla regarding the fairness of comparing a 2 year old cam profile to the newer Skunk2 profile, the IPS product is aging gracefully. The Skunk2 team also deserves credit for putting a solid cam on the market at an excellent price point. I'm certain that many of you rank purchase price as a key factor, and in that department it's tough to beat Skunk2.
Competition between two manufacturers has never been a bad thing. In the end, the consumer benefits from the struggle for supremacy. Hats off to both Skunk2 and IPS for providing us with two excellent options for our beloved K-series motors. I'm certainly looking forward to what both of them have in store for the future!
I'd like to thank Signalpuke and Skunk2 for providing the cam hardware used in this test, Mainstream performance for providing the shop space and dyno time to make this happen, Nikos for providing us with a great free service, and anyone who took the time to read and comment on what we've done with this project. It's amazing how this went from a round of internet smack talk into a real and legitimate comparison in less than a month.
Some other questions I wanted to address:
- We installed the K2s + valve springs on Saturday night. This was not done to give the IPS product any special advantages. It was a matter of logistics as time has to be allotted for the unexpected. It should not matter what day the cams were tuned as long as the dyno plots taken for comparison are from the same day under similar conditions. All dyno pulls were done well after sundown so that air temps would be consistent.
- The general tuning procedure was to tune each cam angle map from 00-50deg. Then create a composite map. This was done for the low cam and VTEC. The two composite maps were then overlaid to determine VTEC. After that point, the tune was smoothed and optimized for power. Really just your basic k-series tuning philosophy, nothing special. This was done for both cam makers.
- The Borla header did not prove to be as much of a limiting factor as was feared. To make 220+ SAE on Mainstream's dyno is quite an accomplishment for an N/A motor. A better header would have benefited both cam setups. Similarly, the use of an exhaust cam gear to dial in the overlap as well as the use of 8620 steel cams would have benefited both cams.
- The Skunk2 cams were making peak power with the 14:1 A/F. The IPS cams were making more power with a richer A/F but I leaned them out knowing in advance that the Skunk cams liked things lean. This was later verified when tuning of the Skunk2's began. I anticipated that people would question why one cam was lean and the other rich so I just targeted 14:1 based on prior experience with tuning Skunk2's and IPS's products.
The K2 dynos were also consistent with a dyno tuning session earlier that week. This individual had bought his cams over 6 months ago.
Curve has the same general shape - should be no surprise. Same installer, same tuner, same dyno, same intake manifold, same grind of the k2 cams. I just made more HP than he did due to the higher compression, and better exhaust/intake setup.
The conclusion is that there was no update the K2 profiles for this test. The profiles are the same now as they were nearly 3 years ago when they first hit the market.
RETAIL PRICE
*note* the cams we tested were NOT THE NEW 8620 CORES that IPS NOW SELLS. We tested the old DUCTILE Cams because it was impossible to find an 8620 camshaft. The retail pricing reflects the 8620 cams, NOT THE CAMS WE TESTED which were sold cheaper and are not longer TECHNICALLY available. the New 8620 is a new material but the same profile as the old ductile grind. Profiles are the SAME, material is different which is the reason for the price increase
IPS :
8620 billet steel. MSRP for all applications ground on the 8620 cores - $1600.00. Eibach EVS - $419.00 retail. Titanium retainers - $270.00 retail. Product is available through IPS-PDN: Premiere Distribution Network only. Contact authorized dealers for sales inquires.
SKUNK2:
Stage 2 Camshafts $797.95
valvsprings $374.06
Retainers $195.51
Authorized skunk2 dealer network found on SKUNK2.COM
HT White Ops
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 13,059
Likes: 33
From: Rochester, MN, US
Re: (Andrey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
can't believe he banned you....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Huh?
can't believe he banned you....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Huh?
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,899
Likes: 0
From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (Runnerdown)
nikos TRIED to question my integrity, i wouldnt have it so he banned me. he was trying to say i was some covert operative that was working for skunk2. He said i threatened him when i warned him that an all out war against me wouldnt be wise.
The truth is, HE gave the results to Ron , who gave the results to OMNIMAN, and ron told Omni to post the graphs even though we had asked for more time to wait for skunk2 to have a chance to answer some interview questions we had prepared. IPS/Nikos didnt want us to have a post that had information praising both sides. I can only conclude that leaking the results KNOWING that we were trying to be fair to both sides means they chose to jump the gun and post the graphs so skunk2 didnt have a chance to respond on a forum that is IPS loyal. politics played a major factor, since i dont play ball like that, i was banned.
Skunk2 was satisfied with the way the test went to my knowledge.
great ethics i have seen in the last couple of days
I praised both sides, but because i didnt praise IPS ONLY, i was labeled a Skunk2 groupie, etc. I didnt have to INVOLVE nikos at all i nthe test. but since it was his site, i gave him the courtesy of seeing the graphs. then i was backstabbed by Nikos, Ron sharing the results an telling Omni to post them KNOWING full well than chunky an i were not done compiling all the data. so the graphs were leaked which werent even the right graphs.
I probablyh should just kep my mouth shut, but theres no fun in that
The truth is, HE gave the results to Ron , who gave the results to OMNIMAN, and ron told Omni to post the graphs even though we had asked for more time to wait for skunk2 to have a chance to answer some interview questions we had prepared. IPS/Nikos didnt want us to have a post that had information praising both sides. I can only conclude that leaking the results KNOWING that we were trying to be fair to both sides means they chose to jump the gun and post the graphs so skunk2 didnt have a chance to respond on a forum that is IPS loyal. politics played a major factor, since i dont play ball like that, i was banned.
Skunk2 was satisfied with the way the test went to my knowledge.
great ethics i have seen in the last couple of days
I praised both sides, but because i didnt praise IPS ONLY, i was labeled a Skunk2 groupie, etc. I didnt have to INVOLVE nikos at all i nthe test. but since it was his site, i gave him the courtesy of seeing the graphs. then i was backstabbed by Nikos, Ron sharing the results an telling Omni to post them KNOWING full well than chunky an i were not done compiling all the data. so the graphs were leaked which werent even the right graphs.
I probablyh should just kep my mouth shut, but theres no fun in that
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,899
Likes: 0
From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (b19coupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks again for doing this test 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
always a pleasure to have your thanks <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Runnerdown »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, crazy drama over @ k20a.org over this.
Those of us who know the work and time that went into this highly appreciate it, thanks for sharing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks, means alot that at least some people see the hard work we did, and i was truly trying to be unbiased. how that got switched around, im still trying to figure out. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good job guys mad props!
can't believe he banned you....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I saw it coming the second he started talking out his *** about how i was sending cams to skunk2, and he wanted to "expose me for who i really am". when i tell him to go for it, he bans me so i cant respond on his website anymore.
i even PMed him to call me, and he wouldnt
</TD></TR></TABLE>always a pleasure to have your thanks
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Runnerdown »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, crazy drama over @ k20a.org over this. Those of us who know the work and time that went into this highly appreciate it, thanks for sharing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks, means alot that at least some people see the hard work we did, and i was truly trying to be unbiased. how that got switched around, im still trying to figure out.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good job guys mad props!can't believe he banned you....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I saw it coming the second he started talking out his *** about how i was sending cams to skunk2, and he wanted to "expose me for who i really am". when i tell him to go for it, he bans me so i cant respond on his website anymore.
i even PMed him to call me, and he wouldnt
MEAT PATTY
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,633
Likes: 2
From: White Suburbia, PA
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (VtecKiDD)
Thats why HT is pretty damn gay at times. It should be about building motors, making horsepower, going faster, and ect..... but politics always seem to get in the way. It wasn't like that back in the day........ 
By the way that was a great test comparsion.
By the way that was a great test comparsion.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,899
Likes: 0
From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (goforbroke)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by goforbroke »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats why HT is pretty damn gay at times. It should be about building motors, making horsepower, going faster, and ect..... but politics always seem to get in the way. It wasn't like that back in the day........
By the way that was a great test comparsion. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i agree 10000% , we tried to make this all about fairness, be unbiased, etc. We had it all taken away by "the machine" so to speak.
im sure he will get word of what i said an mosey on over here . But he cant ban me over here
thanks for the praise, ultimately this isnt about my beef with nikos, or nikos/IPS beef with skunk.
its about 2 camshafts that made good power.
By the way that was a great test comparsion.
</TD></TR></TABLE>i agree 10000% , we tried to make this all about fairness, be unbiased, etc. We had it all taken away by "the machine" so to speak.
im sure he will get word of what i said an mosey on over here . But he cant ban me over here
thanks for the praise, ultimately this isnt about my beef with nikos, or nikos/IPS beef with skunk.
its about 2 camshafts that made good power.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
From: Home of the fastest Hondas in the 417 area since, 1997, usa
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (goforbroke)
Ron has Nikos rapped around his finger. Its sad to see really, Nikos is a good guy
Modified by efi2nr at 7:14 AM 1/25/2007
Modified by efi2nr at 7:14 AM 1/25/2007
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 547
Likes: 1
From: atlanta, ga, USA
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (VtecKiDD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecKiDD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nikos TRIED to question my integrity, i wouldnt have it so he banned me. he was trying to say i was some covert operative that was working for skunk2. He said i threatened him when i warned him that an all out war against me wouldnt be wise.
The truth is, HE gave the results to Ron , who gave the results to OMNIMAN, and ron told Omni to post the graphs even though we had asked for more time to wait for skunk2 to have a chance to answer some interview questions we had prepared. IPS/Nikos didnt want us to have a post that had information praising both sides. I can only conclude that leaking the results KNOWING that we were trying to be fair to both sides means they chose to jump the gun and post the graphs so skunk2 didnt have a chance to respond on a forum that is IPS loyal. politics played a major factor, since i dont play ball like that, i was banned.
Skunk2 was satisfied with the way the test went to my knowledge.
great ethics i have seen in the last couple of days
I praised both sides, but because i didnt praise IPS ONLY, i was labeled a Skunk2 groupie, etc. I didnt have to INVOLVE nikos at all i nthe test. but since it was his site, i gave him the courtesy of seeing the graphs. then i was backstabbed by Nikos, Ron sharing the results an telling Omni to post them KNOWING full well than chunky an i were not done compiling all the data. so the graphs were leaked which werent even the right graphs.
I probablyh should just kep my mouth shut, but theres no fun in that
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The part in bold is not verified.
Honestly Mike, just let it go. The presentation of the results did not go as we had planned. We should have waited before sending out ANY results to anyone. That is what my instincts told me that we should do. In the end I'm not mad at how things went down. There was a lot of emotional interest in the outcome of this test. People felt strongly one way or the other.
I did my best to strip myself of my own biases in the execution of this test. The results are fair and I think both manufacturers acknowledge their validity.
The best thing to do at this point is just to drop the animosity towards nikos/ominman/ron/whoever. It's wasted energy.
The cam test is done, now let's look forward to our next project.
The truth is, HE gave the results to Ron , who gave the results to OMNIMAN, and ron told Omni to post the graphs even though we had asked for more time to wait for skunk2 to have a chance to answer some interview questions we had prepared. IPS/Nikos didnt want us to have a post that had information praising both sides. I can only conclude that leaking the results KNOWING that we were trying to be fair to both sides means they chose to jump the gun and post the graphs so skunk2 didnt have a chance to respond on a forum that is IPS loyal. politics played a major factor, since i dont play ball like that, i was banned.
Skunk2 was satisfied with the way the test went to my knowledge.
great ethics i have seen in the last couple of days
I praised both sides, but because i didnt praise IPS ONLY, i was labeled a Skunk2 groupie, etc. I didnt have to INVOLVE nikos at all i nthe test. but since it was his site, i gave him the courtesy of seeing the graphs. then i was backstabbed by Nikos, Ron sharing the results an telling Omni to post them KNOWING full well than chunky an i were not done compiling all the data. so the graphs were leaked which werent even the right graphs.
I probablyh should just kep my mouth shut, but theres no fun in that
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The part in bold is not verified.
Honestly Mike, just let it go. The presentation of the results did not go as we had planned. We should have waited before sending out ANY results to anyone. That is what my instincts told me that we should do. In the end I'm not mad at how things went down. There was a lot of emotional interest in the outcome of this test. People felt strongly one way or the other.
I did my best to strip myself of my own biases in the execution of this test. The results are fair and I think both manufacturers acknowledge their validity.
The best thing to do at this point is just to drop the animosity towards nikos/ominman/ron/whoever. It's wasted energy.
The cam test is done, now let's look forward to our next project.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,899
Likes: 0
From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (chunky)
yeah well the difference is they are talking about you man, they arent banning you, and they arent calling you out on your methods an integrity.
i really hope you see that
i really hope you see that
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,899
Likes: 0
From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (SiKnezzALLmotor)
edo@intrinsicperformance.com or something like that. its on IPS website.
or go to k20a.org, Nikos can get in touchwith him
or go to k20a.org, Nikos can get in touchwith him
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 547
Likes: 1
From: atlanta, ga, USA
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (chunky)
My thoughts on the matter:
Regardless of the results of this test, and the ensuing controversy and drama, I believe if nothing else a standard was set. Now we have a starting point of how to conduct a fair dyno test. Using the least amount of variables was a feat to say the least.
After careful consideration I have deceided to not send my set of cams to Skunk2. They have seen K2 cams, and as the profile has not been updated since their inception to the aftermarket, I see no reason to send them.
Whether IPS or Skunk2 are pleased with the results of this test is of no concern to me. I feel that both companies would have continued to make cams, and enthusiasts would have been split as to which was better, with or without this test.
I hope to see more of these tests.
Regardless of what the little lines on the graph say, I say competition benefits the enthusiats.
Regardless of the results of this test, and the ensuing controversy and drama, I believe if nothing else a standard was set. Now we have a starting point of how to conduct a fair dyno test. Using the least amount of variables was a feat to say the least.
After careful consideration I have deceided to not send my set of cams to Skunk2. They have seen K2 cams, and as the profile has not been updated since their inception to the aftermarket, I see no reason to send them.
Whether IPS or Skunk2 are pleased with the results of this test is of no concern to me. I feel that both companies would have continued to make cams, and enthusiasts would have been split as to which was better, with or without this test.
I hope to see more of these tests.
Regardless of what the little lines on the graph say, I say competition benefits the enthusiats.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 2
From: Betonwüsten, USA
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (VtecKiDD)
Since I am looking into building a K soon I appreciate the efforts of everyone involved. I am amazed that the simplest of bolt ons/ins will reap such power. :thumup: to competition and competent testing/tuning! Good luck with future projects.
It used to be that K20A.org did not have that much drama. People over there loved IPS because Ron's cams made power and his R&D was pretty well disclosed by Ron himslef. He did a LOT of work in the public eye and I think people appreciate honesty and forthcoming information.
It seems that there's all sorts of politics/drama over there now with the little camps and censoring and Ron withdrew from the public. The world is changing and people just can't be nice to eachother. I wonder if there's as much mudslinging in the Domestic world. Very little Import camaraderie any more.
Pirate
It used to be that K20A.org did not have that much drama. People over there loved IPS because Ron's cams made power and his R&D was pretty well disclosed by Ron himslef. He did a LOT of work in the public eye and I think people appreciate honesty and forthcoming information.
It seems that there's all sorts of politics/drama over there now with the little camps and censoring and Ron withdrew from the public. The world is changing and people just can't be nice to eachother. I wonder if there's as much mudslinging in the Domestic world. Very little Import camaraderie any more.
Pirate
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,185
Likes: 3
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (signalpuke)
Interesting information. The results of the dyno comparison are out, so for the most part VTECKIDD and Chunky did their job well and the import community appreciated this no matter where the results get posted. I don't expect people to see things the way I see them and till now I have been able to do a decent job in being as objective as I possibly can.
I knew that allowing and promoting this Skunk2 vs IPS test, I was talking a big risk in damaging the reputation of IPS.. a company I truely admire. Never the less I was willing to let Skunk2 use my forum as a starting point for their K series campaign. They came in strong and started posting left and right about how much better their cams are without even being a forum sponsor. I allowed all this because most people like to hear from companies like Skunk2.
Meanwhile in the background, VTECKIDD was doing his part as well. YOu have to understand that I am aware that I have a preference to IPS products when it comes to cams, because I like what it is all about... And like I said, I am aware of my preferences.
So then, when I saw that Mike (vteckidd) was still trying to make excuses and putting down the IPS products due to pricing, and excuses like "skunk2 needed a better header etc.. " and all these things he had to say in order to ride the fence till the end, I lost my patience and called him out and some lies.
He then calls me a dumbass and threatens me? on my own forum? Lol.. try to do this on a moderator on honda tech and see what happens.
So next time, when you are going to organise an unbiased test between products that you have no connection with, try to remember that integrity and honor, are not that bad of characteristics.
Ron from IPS is my friend and sponsor and I did what any of you would have done in the same case.
Maybe I jumped the gun on banning Mike, but I felt that he deserved it.
Modified by Nikos at 9:26 AM 1/25/2007
I knew that allowing and promoting this Skunk2 vs IPS test, I was talking a big risk in damaging the reputation of IPS.. a company I truely admire. Never the less I was willing to let Skunk2 use my forum as a starting point for their K series campaign. They came in strong and started posting left and right about how much better their cams are without even being a forum sponsor. I allowed all this because most people like to hear from companies like Skunk2.
Meanwhile in the background, VTECKIDD was doing his part as well. YOu have to understand that I am aware that I have a preference to IPS products when it comes to cams, because I like what it is all about... And like I said, I am aware of my preferences.
So then, when I saw that Mike (vteckidd) was still trying to make excuses and putting down the IPS products due to pricing, and excuses like "skunk2 needed a better header etc.. " and all these things he had to say in order to ride the fence till the end, I lost my patience and called him out and some lies.
He then calls me a dumbass and threatens me? on my own forum? Lol.. try to do this on a moderator on honda tech and see what happens.
So next time, when you are going to organise an unbiased test between products that you have no connection with, try to remember that integrity and honor, are not that bad of characteristics.
Ron from IPS is my friend and sponsor and I did what any of you would have done in the same case.
Maybe I jumped the gun on banning Mike, but I felt that he deserved it.
Modified by Nikos at 9:26 AM 1/25/2007
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (PirateMcFred)
I might do a cam test as well & just post the results here 
all joking aside great job on a tough test... your efforts & results ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED
all joking aside
great job on a tough test... your efforts & results ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,899
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From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: Skunk2 Stage2s vs IPS K2s (Nikos)
ahhhh so i was right, you were reading my PMs. real professional.
my opinion of you nd you website just dropped about as low as it can go.
SO i was giving advice to Tony and Skunk2, did i ever say "Ill make sure you win". If you actually were smart you would see i was defending IPS in some cases and i was telling them that being combative on YOUR website wasnt going to work, that they needed to take a different approach. That was helping YOU and YOUR community out.
but i guess that makes me a skunk2 *****. Well i DEFINETLY am now, because after seeing the TOTAL lack of prefessionalism from you, Ron, IPS, and others, i will NEVER support anything k20.org or you aor IPS does.
So you think i was trying to skew results? i dont see in there where that happened? I was merely giving marketing advice becaues THATS WHAT I DO. the fact that you broke into my account an was sneaking around reading PMs shows how low you stoop.
this battle is over, the war has begun.
Nikos leave me banned, i have no desire to post on your one sided, propaganda site.
my opinion of you nd you website just dropped about as low as it can go.
SO i was giving advice to Tony and Skunk2, did i ever say "Ill make sure you win". If you actually were smart you would see i was defending IPS in some cases and i was telling them that being combative on YOUR website wasnt going to work, that they needed to take a different approach. That was helping YOU and YOUR community out.
but i guess that makes me a skunk2 *****. Well i DEFINETLY am now, because after seeing the TOTAL lack of prefessionalism from you, Ron, IPS, and others, i will NEVER support anything k20.org or you aor IPS does.
So you think i was trying to skew results? i dont see in there where that happened? I was merely giving marketing advice becaues THATS WHAT I DO. the fact that you broke into my account an was sneaking around reading PMs shows how low you stoop.
this battle is over, the war has begun.
Nikos
leave me banned, i have no desire to post on your one sided, propaganda site.