i'm getting closer to sending out my block and head for some performance build. just working on my budget still. i need some help with things to get after the build and installation. here are the modifications:

block: darton sleeves, cp pistons 12.0:1cr 89mm bore, eagle rods, lightweight crankshaft 95mm stroke.

head: port/polish, 5 angle valve job, titanium retainers, dual racing springs, standard size valves.

my list

water pump (old one is broken), front balancer shaft pulley (old one is broken), timing and balance belt, arp studs, head header and im gasket, harmonic damper, euro r im (ported). that's it for now.

questions: are the arp stud required or can i just use stock ones? where can i get the shaft pulley? is there anything i need/change?

please advise, suggest. thanks

 

only thing i would do different is run a chromoly or forged retainer. Chromoly is a harder metal unlike a soft titanium which tends to wear. I dont know how much longer the steel retainers will last over the titanium tho. I just know that they will have a longer lifespan.

by lightweight crank do you mean a modified h23 crank?

about the balancer shafts, buy the kit to delete them. It'll free up some power. I'd recommend going with a larger throttle body along with getting that Euro R mani.

the studs arent required, however, they are cheap and it would personally make me feel more secure. same with ARP rod bolts.

what kinda cams you lookin to run?

what engine management?

 

Make sure you run the MID style sleeves if you want a 89mm bore. Ditch the balancer shafts and run the removal kit.

Go with ARP head studs... you don't want to re-use your stock ones. One thing I see you have overlooked are cams.

 

blake just so you know, titanium itself is much harder than cromoly......however most of the people that make titanium retainers use an alloy of titanium and aluminum, which is much softer.....effectively though, you're right....

 

I have a question kind of off topic.. My brother who is a skater grinds on things bought two sets of trucks for his skateboard. One was aluminum and the other set was titanium.. One day i asked him what last longer and he told me aluminum.. i always thought titanium was stronger

 

Two completely different variables being discussed here due to the coefficient of friction and the angle/process the force/wear is being applied. Heat is also another factor here. Different materials have different hardnesses and different materials he grinds on will affect the wear differently as well. It also depends on which aluminum the trucks are made out of. With heat, material composition can change quite a bit.

Personally I only used Grind King trucks back in the day which were aluminum at the time.

 

Asked my bro about Grind Kings and he said he used them while he was being sponserd by Skate Shack IL. He brought out a big box filled with trucks wheels bearings and sure enough found Grind Kings, with side markings.. . he uses venture now on his deck , told me that ventures are same quaility ..

When you say heat is a factor do you mean melting point or contraction?

 

custom crankshaft. not sure who makes it. not so concern about the TB and cams now. do i need new injectors. i was researching. thinking peak and hold 550cc, but i don't understand the resistor box.

about the balancer shaft, what will i put in to fill it? and the rear balancer shaft? the belt? someone help me through to understand the balancer shaft removal kit. btw, you guys are getting off topic. i still need some more suggestions, info, feedback. but thanks

 

lol you're telling a mod he's getting off topic. found this somewhat interesting video that shows a bit about the strength of aluminum and titanium [and carbon fiber]. but with skateboarding, like anthony says, there's a lot more variables to take into account than just density or hardness of an object. sorry just my .02 cents.

edit: whoops forgot the link =P http://video.google.com/videop...91899

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ge_itr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">custom crankshaft. not sure who makes it. not so concern about the TB and cams now. do i need new injectors. i was researching. thinking peak and hold 550cc, but i don't understand the resistor box.

about the balancer shaft, what will i put in to fill it? and the rear balancer shaft? the belt? someone help me through to understand the balancer shaft removal kit. btw, you guys are getting off topic. i still need some more suggestions, info, feedback. but thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

a motor is supposed to be built around the cams/head so i would hope that you would know what cams you were running........

read the faq for balance shaft elimination kit.

You dont know who this crank is made by yet you want it? Does it even exist? The only aftermarket crank i know of is crowers and its 100mm of stroke. Dunno where you are getting 95mm from unless it was using a h23 crank.

seems to me that you are just listing off a bunch of parts without any reason to why you bought them other than some other motor you saw was running them, so you are going to run them too.......

 

if this is going to be a daily driver i would definately NOT use eagle rods. if you insist on going w/ them to save $$, atleast have the machine shop check them and then they will tell you to get different rods save the $$ from the arp studs and put that towards a better set of rods like manley or carrillo, you wont need the studs.

 

maybe im wrong but if your planning on running a compression that is that high shouldnt you look into a tb and cams to utilize it, or am i completely off?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvteclude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe im wrong but if your planning on running a compression that is that high shouldnt you look into a tb and cams to utilize it, or am i completely off?</TD></TR></TABLE>

its a complete package, none of it will work optimally alone

 

i guess thats what i was trying to get at. now my next question would be, could there be any effects to running comp that high and not upgrating things of that nature? wouldnt you need the added air movement that a larger tb and cams would provide?

 

you don't "need" it by any means, though it would certainly make more power

 

well about the cams, i plan to get skunk2 cam shaft and cam gears but their not in my worries now. same as the throttle body. i mentioned the IM is because i was going to get it port. just to correct you, i did these researce myself and found the parts myself. the reason why i don't know who makes the crankshaft is because i forgot to ask ari (autoraceindustries.com) he said he got some, then we went to some other subject. about the crankshafts, scats have custom too. btw, what category is the balancer shaft elimination in?

 

not an expertise in rods but my other option was arp from IB. you know anything about them?

 

is there anything else that i forgot out there? including little stuff that i don't remember until installation day. i just want to be ready have all the parts that i need. somebody tell me about the injectors. that would help. anything else???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Missing Gears &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if this is going to be a daily driver i would definately NOT use eagle rods. if you insist on going w/ them to save $$, atleast have the machine shop check them and then they will tell you to get different rods save the $$ from the arp studs and put that towards a better set of rods like manley or carrillo, you wont need the studs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Randy is most wise...all hail the H22 god. *bows* "I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Missing Gears &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if this is going to be a daily driver i would definately NOT use eagle rods. if you insist on going w/ them to save $$, atleast have the machine shop check them and then they will tell you to get different rods save the $$ from the arp studs and put that towards a better set of rods like manley or carrillo, you wont need the studs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you about the Manley, Carrillo, etc. but the new Eagles with the 3/8" rod bolts are really not that bad. I've used them on tons and tons and tons of 300-500whp set-ups and still have yet to encounter an issue with the new designs. But I will agree that going with a better rod is the better choice... hands down. For the NA build go with Carrillo Pro-A's. They run about $600ish a set... only $300ish more than a set of eagle's would cost you.

As far as the ARP head studs go, do not re-use stock ones. They are not re-usable. Yes you can check them out for bolt stretch but you'll end up spending 60 bucks at a machine shop for them to measure them. You can spend another 65 bucks and have a set of ARP's that you can re-use time and time again and not have to worry about your head lifting.

 

CP pistons arent they a relatively newer company? I heard they make good stuff but not for sure

 

CP has been around for a long time. They are relatively new to the import industry. Around '01 or '02 is when they starting making a name for theirselves with imports.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree with you about the Manley, Carrillo, etc. but the new Eagles with the 3/8" rod bolts are really not that bad. I've used them on tons and tons and tons of 300-500whp set-ups and still have yet to encounter an issue with the new designs. But I will agree that going with a better rod is the better choice... hands down. For the NA build go with Carrillo Pro-A's. They run about $600ish a set... only $300ish more than a set of eagle's would cost you.

As far as the ARP head studs go, do not re-use stock ones. They are not re-usable. Yes you can check them out for bolt stretch but you'll end up spending 60 bucks at a machine shop for them to measure them. You can spend another 65 bucks and have a set of ARP's that you can re-use time and time again and not have to worry about your head lifting. </TD></TR></TABLE>

eagle rods will hold some power and are ok for race applications, but trust me you dont want them in your motor if you plan to get 10s of thousands of miles out of it. the specs are always off due to improper machining (thats why they are so cheap), i purchased a couple sets of eagles and both sets were WAY off. several machinists warned me against them but i couldnt resist the price. if you want a rod that has been machined properly so that your pistons arent corkscrewing up and down inside your cylinders, go with almost anything but eagle.

as far as stock headbolts, i have always reused headbolts (and so does every honda dealership in the country) and NEVER had a single issue and im talking about several dozens of motors. i have never heard of any shop buying new headbolts to assemble a motor just so they dont reuse the old ones. i was using stock bolts (reused several times) on a motor that was making over 250 whp and have reused headbolts several times on high power daily driven motors as well...never had a problem. just dont overtourqe the **** out of them and they will be fine. now if the motor has been apart several times than yes it would be a good idea to check them.

 

first time to reuse these bolts if i am going to reuse them, but most likely not.

i get it now for the studs and rods, but what about othere components? is there anything else that i forget or never thought of to put in my list?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Missing Gears &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

eagle rods will hold some power and are ok for race applications, but trust me you dont want them in your motor if you plan to get 10s of thousands of miles out of it. the specs are always off due to improper machining (thats why they are so cheap), i purchased a couple sets of eagles and both sets were WAY off. several machinists warned me against them but i couldnt resist the price. if you want a rod that has been machined properly so that your pistons arent corkscrewing up and down inside your cylinders, go with almost anything but eagle.

as far as stock headbolts, i have always reused headbolts (and so does every honda dealership in the country) and NEVER had a single issue and im talking about several dozens of motors. i have never heard of any shop buying new headbolts to assemble a motor just so they dont reuse the old ones. i was using stock bolts (reused several times) on a motor that was making over 250 whp and have reused headbolts several times on high power daily driven motors as well...never had a problem. just dont overtourqe the **** out of them and they will be fine. now if the motor has been apart several times than yes it would be a good idea to check them.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's why we have everything blueprinted with our builds. If something is off with the Eagle's we will have that issue addressed and corrected. I have not seen substantial differences as far as bore hone goes with the new designs though... but I will agree with you that if you compare assembly on an Eagle to a Carrillo you are definetely going to notice a difference between how easily the wrist pin goes in, etc. The old school eagle rods were absolute horseshit in my opinion and the clearances were horrible. Again, I agree if you can afford something better than an Eagle rod, go for it. But they do work.

As far as your head stud arguement goes, I'm going to disagree with you. I have had issues on 2 motors re-using stock headstuds. One of which was mine many many years ago. I build more FI applications so the smallest of stretch on a bolt can lead to the head lifting. If you've built your fair share of FI D series engines you should have realized that they are notorious for lifting and re-using studs on those particular set-ups is not recommended. K series are a torque to yeild and the final tightening sequence is done in degree's as opposed to ft-lbs unlike B/D/H's do so they are in fact a bit different. The K series also have listed int he helms manual the service limits on the bolts. And to back up your arguement, I have seen stock head studs re-used and work. Again, I have also seen 2 engines fail due to the fact that head studs have been reused.

It's cheaper to buy a set of ARP studs for $120 and do it right the first time rather than spend 2x as much doing it twice. $120 bucks is chump change and taking a chance is not really worth it in my opinion. Either way, this is just my .02