Looking at purchasing a harmonic damper for my new motor. the setup is a stock block 2000 JDM ITR, going to running a ported head, cam selection not finalized yet but nothing crazy. hoping to make power to 8500 but I will not spin the motor past 9k rpm.

after losing a previous motor (which was running a CTR N1 pulley) due to oil pump failure, I decided 'better safe than sorry', and made the choice to run a damper on my next setup.

my question is, which pulley do engine building experts feel does the best job? I am not running AC or PS so I only need a single-row pulley. ATI and Fluidampr are the ones I know about, and then just today I saw that a company called 'Powerforce' makes a damper similar to the ATI.

People who have used one or more of these dampers in the past, or anyone who assembles engines for a living, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this...

 

Fluidampr imo. On my lsvtec I used it for 100,000 kilometers which is roughly 60,000 miles. I ran over a 100 passes and 4 or 5 lapping day's. I pulled the motor in favor of going bigger, the bearing clearances were still within spec and looked great, The motor still worked like the day it was put in

 

ctr crank pulley is almost as bad as those aluminum underdrive pulleys, there's absolutely no damping as the ctr pulley is full metal, people recommend somthing like an ATI fluidamper, I personaly like to use the oem piece from the ls/b20, the most important thing is as long as your rotating assembly fully balanced (down to your flywheel), then you should have no problem with the oil pump gear....some also recommend running a circuit worx (old pro-drive) oil pump gear, but from personal experience, I've seen those oil pump gear still break with those stupid aluminum crank pulley......I've used oem oil pump gear with oem crank pulley, with balanced bottom end and made over 600whp spinning over 9K rpm no problems

 

i wondered the same thing so i called jim justice at justice racing engines and ask him and he recommended the fluidamper to me and i believe he did some testing or something on them if i'm not mistakin

 

My friend has the fluidampr on his LS/VTEC, and has had no issues for 45,000. I have the ati street damper on my car and have used it for about 10,000, and we both have had no problems. The pressed fitting is annoying for getting the crank pulley on and off, but I doubt you could go wrong with either one. I don't have ac or ps, however I opted for the ati street damper, because some people on honda-tech had issues with the race pulley (I think the 6.75 and 7.03"), because it did not sufficently power there alternator because of the shorter alternator belt. I can't confirm or deny this, but I figured I better be safe than sorry and just go with the stock alternator belt size.

Hope that helps

 

As for your question.The ATI and Fluidampr both look like nice pieces and i am sure they will perform equally well,so you probably wont go wrong either way.But as i have no real world experience with either(im using OEM gsr pulley) i wouldnt really know.When ever i get ready to rebuild my motor, i will be in your position trying to decide on which pulley i want to run. Someone running an ATI needs to give some input as we have already heard about a couple of fluidamprs. The only info i have on the ATI is one of those "my buddy has one on his car" but seems to be working fine for 1k so far.

 

We give the option of the ATI and the Evolution pulleys for our customers. Both have been working well in turbo and all motor applications. We use the Evolution in our own turbo race car with no problems. Its been good to use since we put it on 2 years ago.

Can't go wrong with the ATI also.

 

Laskey racing recommends the ATI, and Exospeed likes it as well - leaning towards going with that.


Thanks to everyone who offered their input on the actual question I asked. Exospeed you have PM.

 

Im in for some more info on both dampers. I know more people have to be using these...

 

OK lip was kind enough to clean up this thread for us so we can use it to share some useful information. Let's thank him by doing so.

I'm really looking for comments from engine builders who have built engines both with and without these harmonic dampeners - did you notice any difference in in bearing wear when dissassembling the Fluidampr/ATI-equipped motor after xx,xxx miles, compared to what you would expect from a similar motor with a standard Honda (or CTR) crank pulley?

 

is their a ati dampner for the h22(street verson)?
i recantly purchased a alumin one and i am scared to use it
oem untill sombody devolopes a street h22 one
also laskey racing did a test and ati cancelled harmonice past 7,000 rpms . the fluidampner did not

 

kingmotorsports.com has a modified oem one that weighs 3lbs less then stock and retains the damper

 

ATI hands down.

You couldnt pay me to run the fluidamper. I havent seen any failures with the ATI and I have persoanlly seen 6 motors that have all lost oil pumps while running the fluidamper.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ATI hands down.

You couldnt pay me to run the fluidamper. I havent seen any failures with the ATI and I have persoanlly seen 6 motors that have all lost oil pumps while running the fluidamper.</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow. I haven't even seen that many motors that have lost oil pumps, ever! Most of the motors I've worked with have used stock pulleys. So that implies that the Fluidampr is even worse than the stock pulley!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alterdcreations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also laskey racing did a test and ati cancelled harmonice past 7,000 rpms . the fluidampner did not</TD></TR></TABLE>

link?

 

it was back in october - november
i wasn't the only person who seen it

 

Heres my post from when I tore down my motor. Remember I did like 7 cam changes on the dyno and drove with open ITB's so the scoresare from debris..


.
.
.
.
.
I just tore down my motor for a refresh.
Here's my bearings after 412 dyno pulls ,14,000 miles,20 passes at the track.
7 cam changes on the dyno.. You will see some debris in the oil from this, it was apparent by some of the shiny scores on the bearings. these are all surface however and you cant feel them except for on e of them slightly..
..


I'm speechless on how awesome this motor is.. This thing could go another 14 as it sits..

ATI BALANCER INSIDE..
if you dont own one , go buy one!!!!!!!!

 

Tbone were these bearings coated or uncoated?

when i finnaly get all my parts for my 86x92 build im gonna run the ati.

I have seen 2 motors motors spin bearings with the ctr pulley one of them being mine the other being a friend but t wasnt pretty i have also seen bearings chewed up pretty bad with the ctr as well.

i have talked to numerous local builders/machine shops and they wont touch the fluidampener they told me that it solidifies in the bottom of the pulley if it sits for a while or it its cold outside and does alot of damage until it straightenes itself out. they recommend the tci rattler or the ati granted they do domestic builds but doemstics are usually way out of wack anyway.

 

That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks Tom!

Guess I will be running the ATI. Now just have to find a good price on the 'race' damper....

 

here's the laskey balancer test: http://laskeyracing.com/shop/harmonics.htm

 

thats the one

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by revolt_allmotor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Laskey racing recommends the ATI, and Exospeed likes it as well - leaning towards going with that.


</TD></TR></TABLE>


i was also looking at the ATI. fluidampner states you dont need to rebuild, and ATI says you do.


just from that, ATI sounded as if they had the customer in mind.


i am having a sleeved supercharged motor built, 9,000-10,000 rpms. and boost will be effected by pulley size. so nt only will quality and reliablility come into play for my build, but i also want a larger diameter pulley too for a higher boost level.


does anybody know if say LS and b20 dampeners are different size from b16, gsr, or type R units?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STREETWERKZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was also looking at the ATI. fluidampner states you dont need to rebuild, and ATI says you do.


just from that, ATI sounded as if they had the customer in mind.


i am having a sleeved supercharged motor built, 9,000-10,000 rpms. and boost will be effected by pulley size. so nt only will quality and reliablility come into play for my build, but i also want a larger diameter pulley too for a higher boost level.


does anybody know if say LS and b20 dampeners are different size from b16, gsr, or type R units?</TD></TR></TABLE>

call ATI and ask about the diameters...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STREETWERKZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does anybody know if say LS and b20 dampeners are different size from b16, gsr, or type R units?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The OEM B20 pulley has the largest outside dai. for the alt belt pulley. I am pretty sure they (ati/fluidampr) only make two sizes in after market dampers, street and one with an UNDER drive pulley for the alt. ENDYN does sell a larger "stepper" pulley for use on the alt..

 

thanks for the reply. i knew that about the b20 oem crank pulley, and how to make boost with steppers and endyn snout pulleys.


but from my experience, id rather leave the alternator and snout pulleys a little larger or stock. and run the larger crank pulley. to help keep slippage to a minimum.