by experience: how far (miles) have your gone on forged pistons?

i am told i will only get 10k miles on my forged pistons

 

anyone use forged pistons on honda tech? i know oem is good but sh*t

 

Subaru's,BMW's,Mercedes,Mustang's,Camaro's,etc...c ome stock with forged pistons.They last just as long or longer than cast pistons.

 

I am not an expert engine builder or anything BUT, I have thrown together a lot of cars over the years. I know that piston to wall and amount of abuse an engine takes will shorten the life over time but I can't see a forged piston going bad in 10k.

My 89 mustang went 28k of hard earned street and strip mile with a lot of nitrous being thrown through it and the TRW's never even hiccuped. My current motor in my car went about 15k and it has been driven hard as hell and no problems whatsoever on the srp's in it. I have owned a lot of other cars with aftermarket pistons and never thought of yanking them out because they were at 10k. My motors don't come down unless they are broken and failure of a forged piston has never been a problem.

Once again, I am not an expert and don't know everything but this is one I am comfortable with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jay_Sensing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My motors don't come down unless they are broken and failure of a forged piston has never been a problem.QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NJIN BUILDR]Subaru's,BMW's,Mercedes,Mustang's,Camaro's,etc...c ome stock with forged pistons.They last just as long or longer than cast pistons.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is good to hear i was scared for a minute....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Subaru's,BMW's,Mercedes,Mustang's,Ca maro's,etc...come stock with forged pistons.They last just as long or longer than cast pistons.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not all forged pistons are equal. There are several different types of alloys used in forged pistons, all have different rates of expansion, wear charactoristics and lifespans. The majority of the forged pistons that are available for Honda's are made of 2618 alloy. Every single example that you have listed, not one of them uses a 2618 alloy forged piston.

10k miles is about right on a 2618 alloy forging.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hardt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">10k miles is about right on a 2618 alloy forging.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So all the engines built with aftermarket forged pistons have had piston failures at 10k?That certainly has not been my experience.

 

Aside from my DSM's and Subaru, not a single forged piston I have owned has been OEM and I have yet to see failure (that wasn't caused by me that is).

Now I could see using a JE piston with improper clearance resulting in shorter life due to the expansion rate vs an SRP with a lower expansion rate but I just don't see a well built motor dying at 10k because it uses forged pistons.

 

That's total BS . My 268 whp motor went through 412 vigorous dyno pulls and over 14k miles when I took it apart. The internals were fine. Now I do coat all my stuff since its my job and coating helps alot.
The key point when using forged pistons is setting your piston to wall clearance properly.
Unfortunately the manufactures don't suggest enough clearance and that what causes the downfall of most motors. On an 85mm bore motor you should be running at least a .004 clearance if you plan on romping on it at all. .003 is great if you were to drive it daily and never romp it to redline, but face it , that's why we build them.

One thing to keep in mind like Hardt said , not all pistons are = I have seen SRP pistons melt at stock timing on 10.1 cr with pump 93 octane. Do some research when buying pistons and don't just go for the cheapest you can find. At worst look here at all the guys who are making big power and see what we run. Its a good start.


I have built motors with wiseco pistons that have been running for 3-4 years now with over 50k on them now.

 

And there you have it from the guy who knows WTF he is talking about, I would have to say your worries are unfounded just like I thought.

Like I said before, I have never had mine die of natural causes.

 

cool so what question exactly should i ask probe about my pistons to see their metallic make-up and when they give me a bunch of info can i post it here and you'll tell me if its good bad or mediocore

 

Probes are not the same as Wiseco, CP, Accralite. Those should have there own thread. Right Hardt.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Probes are not the same as Wiseco, CP, Accralite. Those should have there own thread. Right Hardt.</TD></TR></TABLE>

could you elaborate a lil more for my knowledge

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allnaturalb16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

could you elaborate a lil more for my knowledge</TD></TR></TABLE>

Probes seem to way down on the list of good aftermarket pistons on HT.I don't have any first hand experience with them as I have never used them.Some people on HT have had some poor results.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Probes seem to way down on the list of good aftermarket pistons on HT.I don't have any first hand experience with them as I have never used them.Some people on HT have had some poor results.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont recommend Probe pistons at all, trust me on this. Nor do I recommend any 2618 alloy pistons for a street car. if you insist on forged, look into Supertech's mahle 124 forged pistons or mahle's line of 4032 forged pistons.

2618 does expand quite a bit more than 4032 or Mahle 124. Proper tuning helps the life of forged pistons, less heat means less expansion, less break down of the alloy all together. The forged pistons found in DSM's, Dodge's, Chevy's, etc, etc are almost all 4032 or variations of (Mahle 124 etc). The 4032 and Mahle 124 alloy forged pistons are much more capable of longevity IMO than any of the 2618, 2618A or RR58 alloys out there. Most OE manufactures seem to agree.

I have seen a few wiseco piston'd motors run quite well for a long time, but on the same note, Ive seen 10 times that amount end up rattling bad after 10,000-12,000 miles, smoking and sounding like a diesel. Like Tom touched on, proper piston to wall clearancing is very key in the life of a forged piston. Too much isnt good, too little isnt good.

The person who id advise talking to about this very topic would be Steve R. (Omniman). he has a lot of experience testing different piston alloys and can give a welth of knowledge and experience on this topic.

PM him, SN "Omniman"

 

well this sucks to know... i had a pretty un-experienced engine builder put my block together. he got the probes and had the machine work done i dont talk to him anymore so i hope the machine shop knew what they were doing.

 

im running a 86mm rlz spec wiseco and am gonna get it coated what kinda piston to wall clearence should i run after getting it coated?

 

Depend on the coating's you get done. You can run tighter clearances when you coat the domes with thermal barrier because there's less thermal expansion and heat transfer. Also depends on what you intend to use the motor for, and how long you want it to last.

 

[QUOTE=Hardt]I have seen a few wiseco piston'd motors run quite well for a long time, but on the same note, Ive seen 10 times that amount end up rattling bad after 10,000-12,000 miles, smoking and sounding like a diesel.[ /QUOTE]

Do you know what the causes were with the wiseco's. I currently run wiseco which is why I ask.

 

The thing i have seen with pistons which most dont check is the pin bores, they start to gall out after about 15k. Thats on high revving stuff. Not all forged and not even all the same brand. Just seen it on about 5 different motors now..