should i run a test pipe or high flow cat? which would be better to use and have better over all performance?

 

Test pipe. Unless you have emissions. Or you just want to pollute less.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc4teg95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">should i run a test pipe or high flow cat? which would be better to use and have better over all performance?</TD></TR></TABLE>

on what? all motor?? how much hp you makin? what motor? what car?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedEj8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Test pipe. Unless you have emissions. Or you just want to pollute less.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You might be surprised when you actually test them...

On the dyno AND at the track [with an All Motor car] a properly matched catalyst performs as well on the top end as a similiarly matched test pipe. It will also provide better torque, fuel efficiency, and reduced noise emissions in the low to midrange when tuned properly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B20C5 Turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You might be surprised when you actually test them...

On the dyno AND at the track [with an All Motor car] a properly matched catalyst performs as well on the top end as a similiarly matched test pipe. It will also provide better torque, fuel efficiency, and reduced noise emissions in the low to midrange when tuned properly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

true, i like to run cats on mild na set ups. if running them cost 10hp or less i will run it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

true, i like to run cats on mild n/a set ups. if running them cost 10hp or less i will run it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok i am going to assume your car is for the track only and your a moral and law following citizen that cares about the environment and the future of the planet!

all that been said TUNED! for a test pipe on any setup will always give you more power then a cat would NOW haters i am talking about been tuned for here ok

and please do not tell me dyno this and that i used to work part time at a speed shop i have seen the results for my self

 

yes i care about the enviorment, when my car was NA it had a cat, the removal of the cat did nothing but increase noise so i just put it back on. as for a tuned difference, what is it? like 5hp? expletive 5hp man, id rather have a cat. on a boosted set up its not that easy, it ***** with your af readings and can reduce power by a lot more than 5-10hp. so on boosted i dont mind if peeps remove them, but a street driven na set up should have one imo, unless they reach a point where no more power can be made feasably with the cat.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes i care about the environment, when my car was NA it had a cat, the removal of the cat did nothing but increase noise so i just put it back on. as for a tuned difference, what is it? like 5hp? expletive 5hp man, id rather have a cat. on a boosted set up its not that easy, it ***** with your af readings and can reduce power by a lot more than 5-10hp. so on boosted i dont mind if peeps remove them, but a street driven na set up should have one imo, unless they reach a point where no more power can be made feasably with the cat.</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL

******* with A/F readings as you put it is about the only thing that makes sense here as for the hp it will give you depends on what you have in the engine that’s too much of an open statement bottom line is it gives you power more power as for the noise find a muffler that can muffle it out there out there! But at the end of the day if you care about noise why you trying to tune your damn car?

I hear more noise coming out of these stupid idiots bumping there damn stereo

Oh and in my opinion if it makes anymore power then what you started with then it is worth it too me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok i am going to assume your car is for the track only and your a moral and law following citizen that cares about the environment and the future of the planet!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Be very careful with your assumptions here... I drive my car every day [on 91 octane fuel] and still manage to produce some very nice track results with FULLY legal safety and emissions equipment in place.

I DO care about my environment and the nature of the planet that I will pass on to my children. Take a look at this run, which was performed on DOT tires with a Catalyst in place: http://www.users.qwest.net/~be...n.WMV

Seems about average until you notice the Wally on it's hood for the 2006 Street Stock Championship (see my Avatar) and then observe this pic taken (5 minutes ago) after driving it in a Utah winter storm :

 

you might make good numbers but are you maxing those?
how could you be with a cat in place causing turbulence and if there is honeycomb in the cat that’s obstructing air flow
for the record add a 120hp of nitrous and you could find your self in the 10's with open header
oh and i am man enough to admit when i see a person who has a pretty good launch a little bit of spin right there but over all a good launch what do you launch at glad to see you do not cheat with launch control lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">glad to see you do not cheat with launch control lol
</TD></TR></TABLE>

so launch control is cheating and removing a cat isent? and nobody said anything about NOS, i agree FI is much better without a cat, but we are talking all motor here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so launch control is cheating and removing a cat isent? and nobody said anything about NOS, i agree FI is much better without a cat, but we are talking all motor here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

it was just ment as a joke BUT i do take your point but i do not see a cat as a cheat why because it is not natural to an engine setup and dose nothing to aid in performance of the engine!

 

I don't care what anyone says, a catalytic converter WILL NOT out perform a non-catalytic converter exhaust system. Probably the reason why people lose power or torque when removing or hollowing out the catalytic converter is because they now (after removal) have an overly large exhaust system. When you remove a cat., you may want to slightly downsize your exhaust tubing, etc., then you'll probably get your torque back, and you'll probably increase your high rpm horsepower.

I would imagine that the placement of the cat as far as downstream location, is in its own way critical. You would probably pick up more performance when removing a cat that is located closer to the header collector versus one that is located further downstream.

From experience with high powered NA racecars, using a catalytic converter is not in any way desireable.

NOTICE: We may only be talking about a several horsepower gain by removing the cat on SOME applications, but for high powered race engines, you wouldn't want to waste your time with installing a catalytic converter.

I hope this helps!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it was just ment as a joke BUT i do take your point but i do not see a cat as a cheat why because it is not natural to an engine setup and dose nothing to aid in performance of the engine!</TD></TR></TABLE>

There's not much of a difference between a cat and test pipe, tuned. Depending on the cat, anywhere from 0-5 whp gains are possible with a test pipe.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DOHC = OVER PRICED AND OVER RATED
SOHC = CHEAP EASY TO FIND PRICELESS </TD></TR></TABLE>

Newb.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integrawow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't care what anyone says, a catalytic converter WILL NOT out perform a non-catalytic converter exhaust system. Probably the reason why people lose power or torque when removing or hollowing out the catalytic converter is because they now (after removal) have an overly large exhaust system. When you remove a cat., you may want to slightly downsize your exhaust tubing, etc., then you'll probably get your torque back, and you'll probably increase your high rpm horsepower.

I would imagine that the placement of the cat as far as downstream location, is in its own way critical. You would probably pick up more performance when removing a cat that is located closer to the header collector versus one that is located further downstream.

From experience with high powered NA racecars, using a catalytic converter is not in any way desirable.

NOTICE: We may only be talking about a several horsepower gain by removing the cat on SOME applications, but for high-powered race engines, you wouldn't want to waste your time with installing a catalytic converter.

I hope this helps!</TD></TR></TABLE>


you are some what on the right track as far as power and power loss but the truth is from the factory the ecu is tuned for the cat converter so when you remove the cat converters the ecu is limited in how it can compensate for this change OR any change made from the oem setup

to max your gains from anything from oem you have to tune for it or anything you change on your setup will be useless because the ecu will try to compensate for these changes
as for closer cat converter for a cat converter not to completely take everything out of the engine car companies have always usually put that stupid thing under the car to give the engine some chance of breathing and making some sort of power

NOW i am aware that with tighter smog control that cats have been moved closer too the header or right after the pipes from the block this is for lower smog results nothing what so ever to do with performance

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bambam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

There's not much of a difference between a cat and test pipe, tuned. Depending on the cat, anywhere from 0-5 whp gains are possible with a test pipe.

Newb.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is not true read what i posted!


as for me been a newb as you put it for quoting my signature

forget my signature for a second ok and lets talk about you calling me a newb as you so nicely put it

i am far from a noob to this forum forget how long i have been a member here i have explained this before i have read on this forum for years before i become a member it is for people like YOU i become a member

as for my signature it stands i have gone against many DOHC setups and my personal results give me the right to say that ok!

that’s my opinion if you do not like it do not read it ok?

and seen as we are talking about qualifications i come from a country that has been using and tuning 4 cylinder engines long before anyone in the USA new what a 4 cylinder engine was!

 

The jury has decided, A CATALYTIC CONVERTER EXHAUST SYSTEM WILL NOT OUT PERFORM A PROPERLY DESIGNED NON-CATALYTIC CONVERTER EXHAUST SYSTEM, EVER.

Here's a thought, go put a sheet of wire mesh (such as the mesh used on front porch enclosures) in the entrance of a cylinder head port, and then flow it on a flow bench. Hell, for that matter, go flow it on a wet-flow bench (doesn't really prove my point as well as an air-only flow bench), and you'll probably notice that the flow numbers will drop drastically.

This court session is over! LOL

I hope this helps!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is not true read what i posted!


as for me been a newb as you put it for quoting my signature

forget my signature for a second ok and lets talk about you calling me a newb as you so nicely put it

i am far from a noob to this forum forget how long i have been a member here i have explained this before i have read on this forum for years before i become a member it is for people like YOU i become a member

as for my signature it stands i have gone against many DOHC setups and my personal results give me the right to say that ok!

that’s my opinion if you do not like it do not read it ok?

and seen as we are talking about qualifications i come from a country that has been using and tuning 4 cylinder engines long before anyone in the USA new what a 4 cylinder engine was!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, calm down. As for opinions, that is mine. If you do not like it, do not read it. I'm not going to argue your opinion, as i'd get nothing but stubborn, uneducated responses.

Back on topic.

If you're unsure of test pipe vs cat comparisons, talk to Dave, owner of SMS Products. I'm sure he can help you out.

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bambam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wow, calm down. As for opinions, that is mine. If you do not like it, do not read it. I'm not going to argue your opinion, as i'd get nothing but stubborn, uneducated responses.

Back on topic.

If you're unsure of test pipe vs cat comparisons, talk to Dave, owner of SMS Products. I'm sure he can help you out.</TD></TR></TABLE>


i worked part time in a import speed shop and saw many many dynos and saw the results for my self that’s why i am so insistant but hey if people want to run them that’s great just makes them slower and easier to beat! LoL

but thanks for the suggestion

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i worked part time in a import speed shop and saw many many dynos and saw the results for my self that’s why i am so insistant but hey if people want to run them that’s great just makes them slower and easier to beat! LoL

but thanks for the suggestion </TD></TR></TABLE>

I've also seen high flow cat's dyno equal with test pipes, with both being tuned. Not every catalytic converter is created equal. It's possible a test pipe may dyno 7-10whp higher than say....an ebay high flow cat, but still unlikely if both setups are tuned. A test pipe shouldn't dyno anymore than 2-3whp than a test pipe if both setups are tuned. Catalytic converters don't impede air flow as much as you may think.

 

Cat converters may not inhibit airflow as much as people may think, but they are VERY UNDESIREABLE in all-out racing engines because of the fact that they DO inhibit airflow, regardless of how much, just the fact that they do.

Here's a piece of advice for those that are curious. If you remove your cat converter, make sure that you don't go outrageousely huge with the exhaust piping. I mean, huge exhaust, from what I have seen tested recently, destroys torque. This test was done on a 454 cubic inch big block Chevy. I think that the most biggest mistake people ALWAYS tend to make is that they will install an entirely new exhaust system, and they will remove the cat converter in the process. Additionally, they will install exhaust tubing that is nearly a half-inch larger in diameter. Not a good thing to do for a NA operation.

If you have a NA Honda that rev's no higher than 7500 rpm, and is no larger than 1.6L, you shouldn't need anything larger than 2 inch piping. Maybe a little larger piping for the larger 1.7 to 2.3 Liter motors, but that's about it. I'd say defintely go huge for nitrous and forced induction applications, but that's it.

I hope this helps!



Modified by integrawow at 7:53 AM 1/13/2007

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=674552

There is NO POINT to run a test pipe on an NA street car! NONE, nadda, zilch, zip. Not one GOOD reason. 5 hp is NOT a good reason (if you can even eek out the 5 hp).

 

^^^^^^On a street car, just keep the cat. I totally agree with this, but for an all-out race car, remove it.

 

hardly worth poluting the air on a N/A street setup,

run a highflow you might lose 2 hp if your unlucky, plus it makes the car sound less raspy in my opinion, and you also will not have to worry about being checked by inspection for a cat (here it is a 400 dollar ticket)

however on my other car which is turbo, i run a test pipe, makes a much larger difference, plus i can shoot flames