I've noticed that I don't see many people with head porting and Big Valve Heads (BVH) done much. From what I see on here, people are willing to spend thousands on wheels, carbon fiber air boxes, Ti exhaust systems, etc. but I never hear of anyone building up their cylinder heads unless they have done everything else AND gone turbo.

Does nobody offer this as a "Buy-It Now" product? I work for Ferrea Valves, and could easily make this possible if there were a demand for it.

I see a lot of people on here that are dedicated all-motor guys and with a core-swapped pre-built head to slap onto the block and pick up somewhere around double the power that they would with all the bolt-ons in the world, they'd be well ahead of the game.

 

It doesn't exist and that's because there isn't much demand. Most S2000 owners are just fanatics about JDM more than power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kane.s2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It doesn't exist and that's because there isn't much demand. Most S2000 owners are just fanatics about JDM more than power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sad but true......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kane.s2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It doesn't exist and that's because there isn't much demand. Most S2000 owners are just fanatics about JDM more than power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow...that is sad. I wonder if S2000 owners in Japan are swapping out their amber turn signal lenses and putting black tape on their windshield frames in order to become ADM?

So spending $1500 on piping and gaining moderate power is exciting and popular than spending perhaps less than double of that sort of bolt-on mod and would provide possibly 3 to 4 times the performance gain.

If I were to get fantastic results on my own S2000 is there any chance that I could create an interest in this sort of product?

 

as for me personally, i still have another 3-4 years of warranty left i'd hate to get it declined

most s2k's are still too new and too expensive for people to messing with the engine, most are somewhat satisfied with the power,

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SilverDc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as for me personally, i still have another 3-4 years of warranty left i'd hate to get it declined

most s2k's are still too new and too expensive for people to messing with the engine, most are somewhat satisfied with the power,</TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand that thought process, but there's gotta be a handful of people that would be interested. Unless the install was done incorrectly, there shouldn't be much detectable that the head was ever off....only if the engine was destroyed entirely and it was taken to the dealer for the repair which would not be a grand idea of course.

 

There's warranty and reliability to it. You know that by not opening the motor, you still have Honda's integrity in the motor. Maybe when my motor gets tired, whenever that maybe (I'm only at 8200 miles), I'll build it up.

 

Problem is that no one makes decent NA mods for reasonable prices. And it seems when folks try, the R&D isn't really there so the mod doesn't come close to making the hp advertised.

No offence to Rash, but the Brian Crower cams are a perfect example...huge interest...people lining up (including me), but then the real world dynos are huge disapointment.

The % of s2k owners who would jump at a deal for a good NA mod is about the same as for RSX or Teg owners...but that % equates to small number of units sold compared to RSX/Teg. To the folks who might develop parts the units demand is too low to make a profit without charging big bucks.

 

&lt;~~ no warrenty... no worries... if i wasnt building my Ej best believe i would have started on the S already!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KingVR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wow...that is sad. I wonder if S2000 owners in Japan are swapping out their amber turn signal lenses and putting black tape on their windshield frames in order to become ADM?

So spending $1500 on piping and gaining moderate power is exciting and popular than spending perhaps less than double of that sort of bolt-on mod and would provide possibly 3 to 4 times the performance gain.

If I were to get fantastic results on my own S2000 is there any chance that I could create an interest in this sort of product?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with you.. however a majority are not into the "MODS" that are required for this head.. you would be surprised how many dont wrench on it themselfs let alone change the oil....

i would be interested in it for the right amount... flow bench charts etc.... cams selection is limited on these cars/motors as well....

 

I would be interested in doing bigger vavles on the Exhaust side but I do not have the cashflow. Most S2000 Owners like myself have a large car payment and Insurance payment to make evert month. MY car will be paid off in 2 months or so. My warranty is gone so I do not care about opening my motor up for a vavle install. The only problem that remains is buying the parts and putting them in. It will probably cost around $700 with tax for vavles and springs thats not counting the install. Aslo there have been a few tests that show Bigger vavles only work on the Exhaust side. No gain on the intake side so charging people for 16 vavles is not only expensive but it is useless when you only need 8 of them. You can check http://www.S2ki.com this has been covered before.


P.S. If you think Ferra vavles can make power I know a few S2000 guys that would like to get this done. I will put offer my car up if you want to sponsor the vavles plus install. I am not trying to come off as a jerk but these are the problems most of us face-Good luck with everything-JOHN

 

Hey guys, I appreciate the insight you've provided. Even though it sounds like they wouldn't be flying off of the shelf, that may be an ok thing since I was looking at it as a possible side business to get into since I have the connections available to make something like this happen. If I only sold a few here and there per year, that's simply extra cash available that I didn't have previously.

I'll have to admit that I was a bit mislead by the amount of money that people are willing to spend on cosmetics, intake and exhaust systems. It seemed like the money would be there to enhance the engine internally in order to stay ahead of the crowd with the bolt-ons. Though there are those who are installing big-money turbo kits, but of course they are getting much larger hp results, but that takes away from the wonderful engine response that goes well with a well handling vehicle like the S2000. Perhaps I need to learn how to form carbon fiber CAI setups?

I have my S to use as a test-bed, so that will be my R&D lab right there.

 

hey, im not bashing on your idea at all, honestly i wish there was more n/a parts that actually made power for a reasonable amount of money,

you have to start somewhere,

 

If you work for them then you should know they make vavles for our cars. You should also know there is VERY little gain in valves/ porting. I belive that would be one of the last mods anyone will do. Im at the point where I am doing stuff to my head, not because of power but because they are stronger and I can rev higher. A good head build would be 3k. I would rather buy a intake mani and get 3-4 times more hp for 1/2 the price

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blkturbos2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A good head build would be 3k. I would rather buy a intake mani and get 3-4 times more hp for 1/2 the price</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would expect a good head to produce more than that. We'll see what I get with my setup and go from there I suppose. Luckily I've got one of the best import head porters at my disposal, so hopefully we get good numbers from this.

 

Hey Zeke Sponsored me with a valve train for my s2k actually from you guys I did the 1mm oversized all around and had Vinny Ten port and Polish the head. not sure if you remember me. the car is going on the Dyno tomm so I will give u guys a call on monday with some info on how they performed

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GDM S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey Zeke Sponsored me with a valve train for my s2k actually from you guys I did the 1mm oversized all around and had Vinny Ten port and Polish the head. not sure if you remember me. the car is going on the Dyno tomm so I will give u guys a call on monday with some info on how they performed</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's good to hear. I was hoping to goto the dyno day tomorrow as well, but it's still up in the air if I can make it or not. Give me a call on Monday and let me know how it works out. What are you using to tune the engine with these mods?

~Scott

 

Didnt make it to the dyno hoping to tune next week with Lance from Toyomoto. im running AEM and a precsion 67mm turbo with a fully built bottom end and head work from Vinny Ten

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GDM S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Didnt make it to the dyno hoping to tune next week with Lance from Toyomoto. im running AEM and a precsion 67mm turbo with a fully built bottom end and head work from Vinny Ten</TD></TR></TABLE>

You and Vinny Ten must be best friends or lovers. Every time you post something it has his name in it. I have never herd or the guy.

As for the poster, A good intake mani should make 60+ hp on a turbo set-up, do you really think a set of valves will do that? Our heads flow alot as is, our intake is what sucks for turbo

 

Vin is cool people...old school racer from NYC. He will be back out this year racing again. well keep us posted on the outcome of the dyno results. But that is a great point we have tested a few ported heads which didn't constitute the high associated cost. It was just more economical and effective just to turn up the boost by 1 psi...but best wishes with your plan.

 

Well, not that I wouldn't be willing to sell these to non-NA customers, I was looking to see if anyone had done anything like this on an all-motor setup. Thsoe are the engines that would benefit the most, as you said, upping the boost will make up for the difference. At the same time, evey amount of boost that you can do without and make the same power, is that much less stress on the engine.

 

Aside from the sallys that are scared to mod their car to that extent, there are other reasons people don't go straight to head work on our cars.

You will see that many people spend the big money on bolt-on parts like a Toda or J's Header or J's 70rr Exhaust because not only are they JDM Bling items, they are the most proven performers.

If you're going to spend $1000 on an exhaust system, you at least want one that's going to perform, right? Same thing goes with headwork. If you look around, many people will tell you that unless you're running a stroker motor, headwork will not net you much horsepower. From what I've been told and have read, a port and polished head and oversized valves will not add much performance because our heads are already designed so well from the factory.

Unless someone were to prove otherwise, it doesn't seem like a very cost-effective mod. That's the reason no one does it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pwrofdrm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Aside from the sallys that are scared to mod their car to that extent, there are other reasons people don't go straight to head work on our cars.

You will see that many people spend the big money on bolt-on parts like a Toda or J's Header or J's 70rr Exhaust because not only are they JDM Bling items, they are the most proven performers.

If you're going to spend $1000 on an exhaust system, you at least want one that's going to perform, right? Same thing goes with headwork. If you look around, many people will tell you that unless you're running a stroker motor, headwork will not net you much horsepower. From what I've been told and have read, a port and polished head and oversized valves will not add much performance because our heads are already designed so well from the factory.

Unless someone were to prove otherwise, it doesn't seem like a very cost-effective mod. That's the reason no one does it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd be hard pressed to see that an exhaust system can really outperform proper head work. Perhaps the head work changes the fuel and spark timing requirements to the point that unless it is tuned specifically for those changes, a lack of substantial power gain (or perhaps even a loss of power) is created as a result. It sounds like there may be enough of an interest in this if I can make this work properly.

Anyone doing a significant amount of mods would benefit from an ECU that can perform an autotune, or else manually tune it to the correct adjustments.

 

I agree with optimizing the boost levels, but spending close to $3K on a fully built head to see 12 additional ponies really did not produce a strong return...Now we have used some of your products and they have worked out well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KingVR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anyone doing a significant amount of mods would benefit from an ECU that can perform an autotune, or else manually tune it to the correct adjustments.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just from doing the Internet research (take that for what it's worth), here are the issues with making headwork worthwhile on a F20C and F22C.

1) The head is pretty damn good already. A stock F20C head flows around 320CFM @ 0.50" lift measured @ 28" and 210 CFM @ 0.35" lift exhaust. That's pretty good match for 2.0L @ 8.9k RPM or 2.2L @ 8.2k RPM. Need more displacement or more revs with big cams to want more flow. That's a full rebuild, more money than just a "simple" head or cam swap.

2) The best porting typically yields +5% on the intake +12% on exhaust, and only at max. lift. So were not talking huge gains, like porting a crappy restrictive head. A few guys that have posted with just head work typically don't gain much of anything. Again need to do more work to get something worthwhile.

3) Up to 2006, the ECU's are non-programmable. There is no cheap way to flash or "chip" the ECU to tune the car. You have to step up to basically a full EMS to get a good tune on a reworked motor, more $$$. 2006 and later are flashable, but there is only one fixed function flash that Hondata offers and no custom tuning product.

Basically, no simple buy this bolt on and good gain, and no aftermarket guys are going to do real R&D for such a small market. If there was a cheap way to do things, a lot of people would do it, but not many have the cash or the expertise to do a custom professional engine build and tune.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blkturbos2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You and Vinny Ten must be best friends or lovers. Every time you post something it has his name in it. I have never herd or the guy.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You gotta be in the industry from a while back but he's very well known and has been around for a long time.