I had trouble at Laguna Seca - too loud. I'm running a stock H22A1, but because it's mid-engine, there is very little space for a big muffler. I was (emphasis on WAS) using a SuperTrapp... a real POS - ticked me off yes it did - but I digress.

Anyway, if I could find something of a similar size, 18 x 5", it could fit in the same place. Anyone using something that size that really works?

Oh, and the track limit is 92dB, and I'm not using a resonator or cat. Giving no other choice, I may have to extend the exhaust to run back around to behind the engine - lots of room there - I just hate to generate all that additional heat off the pipe.

 

i have seen people not pass sound with just a short ram intake and a stock exhaust.


Welcome to track days at laguna seca

 

you can try one of those dynomax super turbo mufflers... maybe try running a turndown? if you arent already

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have seen people not pass sound with just a short ram intake and a stock exhaust.

Welcome to track days at laguna seca</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I thought of that afterwards. My intake is on the right side too, pointing right at the microphone Guess I'll need to "point" the intake forward.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vietnameeh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can try one of those dynomax super turbo mufflers... maybe try running a turndown? if you arent already</TD></TR></TABLE>

Superturbos are decently quiet. You can also order Walker "Quietflow" mufflers from pep boys in just about any size/config. They have the same superturbo design, but better sound insulation inside.

And you can make the turndown piece as a clamp on elbow, so you can swivel it around and point it any direction - like away from where their mic station is.

also, I've seen people lift off the throttle a bit through the section they take the sound measurements.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike-y &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

from where their mic station is.

also, I've seen people lift off the throttle a bit through the section they take the sound measurements.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah that's what I had to do. It sucks though because it probably cost me 3-4 seconds. The clamp-on elbow is exactly what I plan.

I'll check out the Walker Quiteflow. I figure if I get a muffler for a V8 car I should be all set as far as flow goes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have seen people not pass sound with just a short ram intake and a stock exhaust.
Welcome to track days at laguna seca</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry to go off topic, but I am from the Midwest and am not familiar with Leguna Seca's rules. Is the 92 dB limit for track days only or is that applicable for SCCA or NASA sanctioned road race events as well?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mc-integra111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sorry to go off topic, but I am from the Midwest and am not familiar with Leguna Seca's rules. Is the 92 dB limit for track days only or is that applicable for SCCA or NASA sanctioned road race events as well?</TD></TR></TABLE>

How it works is they are allowed so many unlimited noise days. those go to the big guys, GA, ALMS, the bikes. Then they have so many window days, were depending on the hours, the DB limit changes, SCCA has all of those days. And im pretty sure they have them the following year unless they drop, (which they wouldn't). NASA doesn't race there because all of the loud days are taken, (and they cost more then a 92 and below weekend). IIRC they did have races years ago but numbers were low because of the 92 DB limit. So now they just run HPDE's.


This is all thanks to the idiots who moved into that valley, and didn't think about a race track being located in it, that had been there for YEARS. They all had lots of money so they sued the track, and this is what we have to deal with.

 

California law says max of 95 db on the street .... Laguna Seca says max of 92 db on a race track ... it's makes so much sense that it's legal to drive to the track, but not drive on the track LOL.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">California law says max of 95 db on the street .... Laguna Seca says max of 92 db on a race track ... it's makes so much sense that it's legal to drive to the track, but not drive on the track LOL. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thats what happens when people with more money then sense move close to a race track

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had trouble at Laguna Seca - too loud. I'm running a stock H22A1, but because it's mid-engine, there is very little space for a big muffler. I was (emphasis on WAS) using a SuperTrapp... a real POS - ticked me off yes it did - but I digress.

Anyway, if I could find something of a similar size, 18 x 5", it could fit in the same place. Anyone using something that size that really works?

Oh, and the track limit is 92dB, and I'm not using a resonator or cat. Giving no other choice, I may have to extend the exhaust to run back around to behind the engine - lots of room there - I just hate to generate all that additional heat off the pipe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmm, ive heard your car at the auto-x, and didnt sound too loud.

Did track officals complain? Laguna's Seca hills absorb a lotta sound.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carbnjunkie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Did track officals complain? Laguna's Seca hills absorb a lotta sound.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh yes, black flag and all. If I'd received one more I'd be sent home. I didn't know about the 95dB on the street being legal

 

Why do you say the SuperTrapp is a POS? How many discs were you running? I havent used one of these for like 15 years, but way back then they worked very well on my V8 "pony" car...

 

When I researched what muffler to use, there were many negative comments about SuperTrapps. However, it fufilled the role quite well for me. Small, light, stainless, rebuildable, and of course, you can adjust the number of baffles. That's the idea...

First problem, the screws seize up. Yes I used stainless hardware, and I always used antiseize. The problem (by design) is that the end of the screws stick through the internal captive nuts, into the interior of the muffler. The antiseize gets baked and falls off. Next time you try to remove them, the screws get stuck.

The screws that jam have to be cut off, and the remainder screwed into the muffler until it falls out the back of the captive nut. Then, the hole is chased with a tap, a new screw installed with antisieze, and the whole cycle starts over again.

Second problem. Sometimes, when you really need it to work, and the screws seize, like usual, the muffler decides to play nasty, and the captive nut inside the body breaks free. Now, you can spin the screw until you're blue in the face, but it will never come out. So you then have to cut it or break the screw head off, to get the baffles out.

Third problem. Once enough baffles are removed to quiet the engine down, there is now so much back pressure that it pushes the face of the muffler outward. This was my muffler at the end of the day. Nice, huh? Note the broken screw at the bottom, and how the end-plate is pushed out. Even though there are only three screw holding the baffles in, they are not the screws that holds the end-cap on. The only two screws retaining the end-plate are on one side of it, what's with that?

BTW, this muffler has only 1500 miles on it, and the screws were last out about one month ago. A poor excuse of a product. The muffler makes promises it doesn't keep. I won't use one again.

 

When everyone is banned from LS for noise, I'm going to hunt down everyone of you jackasses that "beat" the sound meter and beat you with a dynomax muffler. It's only a matter of time before they close the track down or force an even lower sound limit due to the current 92dB not being quiet enough. Use your ingenuity and creativity to quiet your **** up instead of going the easy way. Long term, pointing your sound a different direction will cost you race tracks and events. Your ingenuity won't mean **** when you don't have a track to drive on anymore.

What distance is the sound measured at LS? 50ft? 75ft?

 

Fair enough, I asked for that, and you are right. If I/we screw with "the system" long enough, we'll break it. While I don't like the rules, it's just how it is. FWIW, I did not use any exhaust bends to redirect the sound, I thought the SuperTrapp would do its job - I was wrong. I really didn't want to just quit mid-day, and drive 400 miles back home. However, that's the only "right" thing to have done.

Not sure about the distance... 50ft from the edge of the track maybe.

And yes, right now I'm determining which Dynomax will fit.

FWIW, I wonder what it would cost to build one of those big concrete "freeway walls" along the south end of the track, which would keep the noise from heading that way.


Modified by kb58 at 11:23 AM 1/10/2007

 

I've had similar but different experiences with the Super Trapp. Less mileage though.

I think maybe you're getting much higher EGTs than I am.

Originally had problems with the screws. I think two of them seized and broke. Which was actually pretty cool because they acted as studs that held the disks in place. I now use I think three actual cap screws to hold the disks.

I use less disks and never had the bulging problem.

But here's the catch... I'm not using the old-style supertrapp, but the new "Supertrapp Wavetech". I'm fairly pleased with it because it is all stainless, tunable, etc. I've got open end-caps, misc disks, etc.

The other thing is my car SOUNDS the loudest out of pretty much all the cars at the track, but when you get a meter on it, it is fairly quiet. Something like 89 db I think was the last time I had it checked, which was actually below average and like 4-5 under the limits. There were cars that SOUNDED much, much quieter than mine but actually were over the dB limits. It must have something to do with the frequencies.

Not a problem for me at the race weekends where they have an actual dB meter, but at HPDEs where they don't it was a bit of a problem (again because while the dBs are low, the perceived volume is high).

http://www.fatboyraceworks.com/gallery/SuperTrapp

 

A rebuttal to the "cheating the system" comments.

Let's say there are two identical race cars, both emitting 95dB. One car's muffler exits on the right, where it points at the sound meter at Laguna. The other car's muffler exits on the left.

The second car will "pass" the 92dB sound limit because of exhaust routine - is that cheating? The exhaust on this car was not modified to point away from the meter, so the driver isn't doing anything unethical. The first car is, frankly, screwed, because it's deemed wrong to redirect the exhaust.

This makes me wonder why they don't have a mic on both sides of the track. If, however, the point is to only cut noise to the south of the track, adding a bend to point it the other way is completly valid and "legal." It's actually helping to keep that area quieter.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When I researched what muffler to use, there were many negative comments about SuperTrapps. However, it fufilled the role quite well for me. Small, light, stainless, rebuildable, and of course, you can adjust the number of baffles. That's the idea...

First problem, the screws seize up. Yes I used stainless hardware, and I always used antiseize. The problem (by design) is that the end of the screws stick through the internal captive nuts, into the interior of the muffler. The antiseize gets baked and falls off. Next time you try to remove them, the screws get stuck.

The screws that jam have to be cut off, and the remainder screwed into the muffler until it falls out the back of the captive nut. Then, the hole is chased with a tap, a new screw installed with antisieze, and the whole cycle starts over again.

Second problem. Sometimes, when you really need it to work, and the screws seize, like usual, the muffler decides to play nasty, and the captive nut inside the body breaks free. Now, you can spin the screw until you're blue in the face, but it will never come out. So you then have to cut it or break the screw head off, to get the baffles out.

Third problem. Once enough baffles are removed to quiet the engine down, there is now so much back pressure that it pushes the face of the muffler outward. This was my muffler at the end of the day. Nice, huh? Note the broken screw at the bottom, and how the end-plate is pushed out. Even though there are only three screw holding the baffles in, they are not the screws that holds the end-cap on. The only two screws retaining the end-plate are on one side of it, what's with that?

BTW, this muffler has only 1500 miles on it, and the screws were last out about one month ago. A poor excuse of a product. The muffler makes promises it doesn't keep. I won't use one again.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, i see... I think this is a case of a product not suited for an application. The way you have it mounted - which looks like mere inches from the header, would make it take the full blast of exhaust energy before it has a chance to cool and slow down. The way i had it them setup on the 88 TransAm there were 2 of them at the end of a full dual exhaust snaking under the car, which on G3 f-bodys is like 15ft of pipe. Had the el-cheapo regular steel ones for 5 years, used to take the caps off like every weekend, never stripped a bolt. Also, after a while, the carbon buildup would act as an antiseize on the bolts and they actually got easier to unscrew... In the end, what gave me problems is the wear and tear on the bolt hex hole itself so the key would slip trying to loosen it.

I'm using a Flowmaster Hushpower muffler on the Civic right now and although i havent had it officially DB'd yet, based on the previous setups i had and other cars, i'd be really surprised if it be over 90-91 DB. I dunno if it would fit in your setup though... http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/hp2.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike-y &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

also, I've seen people lift off the throttle a bit through the section they take the sound measurements.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I did this at Nasa's event there last year and was reprimanded for driving slow....LOL

Kb, a bit off topic (apologies), how did your brakes hold up?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JamesS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Kb, a bit off topic (apologies), how did your brakes hold up?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Excellent. No hint of fade, hard pedal, very easy to modulate. The most important thing though, was how they inspired confidence to dive into corners harder. For me, the upgrade to Wilwoods was well worth it.

 

You could try a Mugen or Hytech twinloop muffler.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You could try a Mugen or Hytech twinloop muffler.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont he wants that extra weight

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vietnameeh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont he wants that extra weight</TD></TR></TABLE>

I doubt very much that it weighs more than the other ones suggested. Even if it does, its a very minimal difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You could try a Mugen or Hytech twinloop muffler.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd be willing to try the Hytech, but their website sucks. No pricing (anyone know?) no dealer list, no technical drawings to show size. No excuse.

Guess I have to call them and hope their product is better than their website...