<U>semi conclusion on page 2</U>+ more questions?????? ?????? ?????? ??????

Ok I bought the first ever lovefab b-series turbo kit. The kit never crept on cody's car but I'm getting massive boost creep.
Setup:
Mini-me eq manifold
gt3071r.
Tail 38mm waist-gate, 4lb spring/small yellow.
3" downpipe to a 3" thermal exhaust, no cat.
81.5mm ITR block, 9.2-1 comp.
stock ITR head.
AEM EMS.

The car would hold 4/5lbs of boost until vtec/4800 rpm, then slowly rise to 13/14lbs by 8k rpm.
I then switched to a tial 44mm and it would hold 6/7lbs until vtec then will go to 13/14 by 8k rpm.

Cody's setup was a stock gsr block and only 2.5" exhaust. and held boost with the 38mm. even with my bigger exhaust there should be no reason for this much boost creep... Is there something I'm overlooking???

right out of the box dyno pull with the 4lb spring


picture of manifold






Modified by program at 7:49 PM 1/18/2007

 

Pic of the manifold? Particularly around the WG/collector area. I'm assuming no boost control other than the spring?

Simply put...the turbine is the path of least resistance even when the WG is open causing the over boost. Might want to check your lines running to the WG as well. Make sure you don't have the top port connected to anything.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostwerks.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pic of the manifold? Particularly around the WG/collector area. I'm assuming no boost control other than the spring?

Simply put...the turbine is the path of least resistance even when the WG is open causing the over boost. Might want to check your lines running to the WG as well. Make sure you don't have the top port connected to anything. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Pic's up. no boost controller until i can get it to stop creeping, yes I'm just using the spring. Line to the waistgate is fine, no more than 1.5' long from the turbo housing to the waistgate. I was thinking of running a cat, or welding a small lip inside of the collector thats angled to direct more exhaust flow toward the waistgate. Is there any other posibilitys that I'm not thinking of?????????

 

The area where the wastegate meets the manifold really needs an angle to it, so that the exhaust gas flows into it and not right by it to the exhaust housing.

 

Haha yeah minor details usually overlooked by fabricators. Very few manifold designs incorporate wastegate priority.

Take the wastegate off and look in the wastegate pipe off the manifold. Is it partially blocked by welding blobs? Or perhaps the hole cut in the collector isnt as big as the wastegate pipe and it could be opened up a little bit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Synapse Motorsport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The area where the wastegate meets the manifold really needs an angle to it, so that the exhaust gas flows into it and not right by it to the exhaust housing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It does have a very slight angle in the right direction, leening toward the turbo.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Haha yeah minor details usually overlooked by fabricators. Very few manifold designs incorporate wastegate priority.

Take the wastegate off and look in the wastegate pipe off the manifold. Is it partially blocked by welding blobs? Or perhaps the hole cut in the collector isnt as big as the wastegate pipe and it could be opened up a little bit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ya i looked at all that when i changed gates. I had to lopp off the 38mm flang and weld up the v-band for the 44mm. everything looked really good. I t could have maybe been massaged a little to flow better (what couldn't) but by far nothing to ubstructive.

What else causes boost creep?????? I wonder if there would be a way to tempararaly block some exhaust flow creating more back-pressure to see if maybe a cat would help????

 

is the wastegate open dump? where is the line coming from that feeds the wastegate?

 

try a 0.5bar spring see if it helps.

 

yellow spring is a 10psi spring.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ham &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is the wastegate open dump? where is the line coming from that feeds the wastegate? </TD></TR></TABLE>

It is an open dump. and it's feed off the compressor housing.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HamiltonRex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">try a 0.5bar spring see if it helps.</TD></TR></TABLE>

my new gate has a 6lb spring which is .4 bar i don't see a .5 bar helping...???

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yellow spring is a 10psi spring. </TD></TR></TABLE>

my old 38mm had a SMALL yellow which is about 3lb/0.2 bar spring.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by program &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my old 38mm had a SMALL yellow which is about 3lb/0.2 bar spring.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry i dont know how small the small is, the one im referring to is about 5 inches tall and about 1.5" wide, i guess thats BIG?

 

I'd suggest putting a Tee into the WG line and adding a boost gauge to that - that will let you see exactly what the turbo is seeing for pressure. You may also want to try checking the WG's with a hand pump (and gauge), but as you have two creaping, its probably something else. The other thing you should try is moving the WG line to after the throttle body for a while.

One thing to note is you could have a small enough leak in the WG or the WG hose itself. If its a crack that opens with a certain amount of pressure, it will hold low boost, then once there's enough flow & pressure, it will leak it out. That will be a path of less resistance than into the WG, and start closing the WG.

Whatever it is, I doubt its the WG placement as much as it could be something else. If Cody didn't have creap, and two WG sizes are creaping, it would have to almost break some laws of probabilities for it to happen suddenly.

 

How much boost was Cody running? Is it possible your trying to run too little psi on that turbo?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd suggest putting a Tee into the WG line and adding a boost gauge to that - that will let you see exactly what the turbo is seeing for pressure. You may also want to try checking the WG's with a hand pump (and gauge), but as you have two creaping, its probably something else. The other thing you should try is moving the WG line to after the throttle body for a while.
One thing to note is you could have a small enough leak in the WG or the WG hose itself. If its a crack that opens with a certain amount of pressure, it will hold low boost, then once there's enough flow & pressure, it will leak it out. That will be a path of less resistance than into the WG, and start closing the WG.

Whatever it is, I doubt its the WG placement as much as it could be something else. If Cody didn't have creap, and two WG sizes are creaping, it would have to almost break some laws of probabilities for it to happen suddenly. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

was cody running that same turbo/dp/exh ??

edit...

i think its the bigger exh allowing the turbo to make more boost easily. that is why you are getting creep.

 

whats the issue here? Ur making 400+.


I think ur trying to run too little boost on a big turbo, soo either try turning the boost up so it doesnt creep but u can still get traction, or be happy with 400hp and get an LSD and DR's and tqake it like a man.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd suggest putting a Tee into the WG line and adding a boost gauge to that - that will let you see exactly what the turbo is seeing for pressure. You may also want to try checking the WG's with a hand pump (and gauge), but as you have two creaping, its probably something else. The other thing you should try is moving the WG line to after the throttle body for a while.

One thing to note is you could have a small enough leak in the WG or the WG hose itself. If its a crack that opens with a certain amount of pressure, it will hold low boost, then once there's enough flow & pressure, it will leak it out. That will be a path of less resistance than into the WG, and start closing the WG.

Whatever it is, I doubt its the WG placement as much as it could be something else. If Cody didn't have creap, and two WG sizes are creaping, it would have to almost break some laws of probabilities for it to happen suddenly.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll try putting the line after the throttle body and check the line also to see if that helps. I'm pretty sure there isn't a crack on it. i looked the manifold over well when i changed gates.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">was cody running that same turbo/dp/exh ??


edit...

i think its the bigger exh allowing the turbo to make more boost easily. that is why you are getting creep. </TD></TR></TABLE>
cody was running the same turbo/dp but 2.5" exhaust. I'm begining to think it's that, + my better flowing ITR motor and head????
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by coneheadsracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much boost was Cody running? Is it possible your trying to run too little psi on that turbo? </TD></TR></TABLE>
cody ran 8, 10 and 14 psi. With no creap. My turbo is only a gt3071r, not real big at all, I would think it could hold 7lbs on a 44mm tial...???
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93supercoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats the issue here? Ur making 400+.


I think ur trying to run too little boost on a big turbo, soo either try turning the boost up so it doesnt creep but u can still get traction, or be happy with 400hp and get an LSD and DR's and tqake it like a man. </TD></TR></TABLE>
True enough if it was only creaping 1 or 2 psi, but look at my dyno gaph ... It needs to be a little more under controll. Also I tried running on cody's 14 lb map for a while but it would still creap... only this time it would creap to the fuel cut at 15 psi.

 

I'm thinking of throwing a cat on the car. I wonder if that would help???

I'll be checking the lines for boost/vacuum, running the gate with no spring, maybe try to find a way to bolt up a 2.5" exhaust for ***** and giggles, see what happens.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostwerks.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Simply put...the turbine is the path of least resistance even when the WG is open causing the over boost. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess the Sexual harasment panda is right. I guess now all i can do is run a cat and hope it creats some back-pressure. first I'm going to take off the tial totally and see how far into boost i can get it.

 

is there room to add another gate ??

 

did getting the vacume source from the intake manifold help?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C1CYA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is there room to add another gate ??</TD></TR></TABLE>
I really don't want to have to resort to spending that much $$$$$$
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HamiltonRex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did getting the vacume source from the intake manifold help?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not at all

 

If you can, take the manifold off the car and take a pic of the WG tube from the inside of the collector. I'm wondering if there is enough pipe left that you could port the opening of the tube. I'm also wondering how the size of the hole cut in the collector compares to the ID of the WG tube.

 

one other thing i just thought of and i didnt read through to see if it was mentioned: did you try a stronger spring? ive seen bad creeping problems with .4 bar or lower springs.

i think this issue is def related to the manifold. i think you should just get another manifold. has anybody else had this problem with this manifold??

if you have an open dump, the turbine should never be the easiest path. if thats the case its a poorly designed manifold!

 

also, did you try running it with NO spring?