Wanted to know what is needed to get a f23 crank into an h22a with 50 mm mains. I know that they will fit in the 98 up h22 blocks cuz they come with 55 mm mains already. Also after all the modifying of the crank to get it to fit can u run any stock rods with jdm h22a pistons in the h22a block? From what I have read most people end up having to run all new rods and pistons which in turn means u have to sleeve the h block. I would like to stay away from sleeving and going custom pistons because that costs a lot more money and kinda want to keep it in stock honda parts. If it appears that all this is too much trouble then it may just be easier to run and h23 setup instead, or buy myself a 98 up h block to make this more simple. Feed back fellas?

 

You will have to grind the mains down to 50mm like you said and then sleeve the FRM block to run custom compression height forged pistons and then shell out $700 for custom rods if you want anything other than the stock F23 rods.

If you use H22 pistons with a CH of 1.222" with F23 crank and rods then the pistons will protrude from the deck approx. .034". They will probably hit the head and grenade the motor without a really thick headgasket which will mess up cam timing and compression.

Do it right or not at all.

Pirate

*edit* fixed typo


Modified by PirateMcFred at 3:15 AM 12/27/2006

 

Well put Fred. I just needed to know if I could run stock internal parts and just as I might of guessed you cant do it without going a full build. So I most likely will pick up a h23 block and run that. To come up with funds like that I would have to sell my fully built b series turbo setup. Yes I took on 2 projects cuz i got the h2b from my friend for dirt cheap couldnt pass on it. I might sell off my turbo and the manifold and a few things to fund this h2b project. I think I would be happy with an h23 bottom. The f23 crank build sounds so intoxicating but its something I would have to give more serious thought and research.

 

Well if you really wanted to try something new, you can try some 2000-2003 S2000 pistons with the F23 cranks and rods in the H22 block. From what I read the compression height is 1.181" and the bore is 87mm and they are nice forged units that are FRM compatable. Should give pretty good compression too.

The only hitch is they are about $600 a set from the dealer. But could be worth a try though.

Pirate

 

Thanks Fred.

 

 

i always wondered about those s2k pistons
great info.

 

Hey Fred How much compression would that yield with the f23 crank and rods and S2k pistons?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pjhatchin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey Fred How much compression would that yield with the f23 crank and rods and S2k pistons?</TD></TR></TABLE>

ALOT, probably over 13:1

 

As long as those s2k pistons line up even to the deck at tdc then you can use a cosmetic head gasket and curtail your compression to whatever your needs are.
that would be a beast of a engine

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ALOT, probably over 13:1</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well it depends. You can probably use either the 2000-2003 ones and get more compression or get less with the 2004+. The dome has got to be pretty big on the earlier ones due to short stroke but the combustion chamber is probably in the neighborhood of 50 cc.

It is a SWAG (guess) that the F20C and F22C have combustion chambers around 50.5 cc's I could be wrong so take the numbers with a grain of salt.

87mm bore
84mm stroke
50.5cc head
2cc dome
.026" headgasket
.005" piston to deck.

gets you to about 11.1:1 CR for the Factory 2004+ S2000

87mm bore
90.7mm stroke
50.5cc head
5.5 cc dome
.026" headgasket
.005" piston to deck.

gets you to about 11.0:1 CR for the Factory 2000-2003 S2000

Using the exrapolated piston dome volume from above you sub in a larger chamber volume for the H22 head, a 97mm stroke at 87mm bore and you get about 11.2:1 with the F22C pistons and close to 11.9:1 on the F20C pistons with the following in consideration:

87mm bore
97mm stroke
53.8cc H22 head
.026" head gasket
.005" piston to deck.

Without hard numbers though it is sort of a guess. Even if the CC's go one way or another it looks like it will still be able to run on pump gas if you tune it right. For anyone attempting to do this you should still consider that the S2000 pistons were not designed for short rod motors. 1.44 R/S ratio is pretty different than the S2K's original 1.82 R/S. The S2K piston skirt design might not be that good for 8000 rpms or more with such a short rod.

Pirate

 

damn fmr walls

 

Well I'm really considering doing something different than this even. I have been going over it in my head for several days now and I think I will just do a full build. Get a custom stroker crank custom rods and pistons and sleeving. I will sell off all my b turbo **** which is quite a bit. That should leave me with enough money to do a full build or get close to finishing it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You will have to grind the mains down to 50mm like you said and then sleeve the FRM block to run custom compression height forged pistons and then shell out $700 for custom rods if you want anything other than the stock F23 rods.

If you use H22 pistons with a CH of 1.222" with F23 crank and rods then the pistons will protrude from the deck approx. .034". They will probably hit the head and grenade the motor without a really thick headgasket which will mess up cam timing and compression.

Do it right or not at all.

Pirate

*edit* fixed typo


Modified by PirateMcFred at 3:15 AM 12/27/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why not just get a set of costum rods and run the H22 pistons ? You can get them from Crower for about 700$, is there going to be problems whit the rod/stroke length ?

I have a H22 blok with 55mm mains (H22A8) sleveed with Darton MID slevees and I am running 89mm 11,5 cr Wiseco pistons, I am very temptet to get the F23 crank and costom rods.

What would the cr be if I just got the F23 rods made 0.034 shorter than stock ?

I assume that you could rev a motor like this to about 7500-7800 rpm ?

PWL

 

Custom pistons are generally cheaper than custom rods and you always want as long a rod as possible, especially when you start getting into strokers. Also, shorter pistons can be lighter, lighter pistons allow higher revs.

The geometry for the F23 is not real good with a R/S ratio of 1.44. There's a lot of piston side-loading and high revs just deteriorates longevity even more. But then again, people do whatever they want, so you should too.

If you got the shorter rods the compression will be determined by the 89mm forged piston specs that you intend to use. In your case you will probably be in the 12,25:1 range depending on specifics.

With quality components you can probably rev the engine to 9000 but making power there might be a challenge and as usual the higher you rev the shorter the lifespan of the engine. With H22s there's usually not much reason to rev past 8000 anyow.

Pirate