Im looking at new Ksport coilovers and i can either use the eg ones that have spring rates of 10kg front and 6kg rear, or i can get integra dc ones which are 13kg front 7kg rear..... What would you reccomend for some summer street driving, and some autox racing on my full interior del Sol VTEC?


Modified by solerizr at 4:10 PM 12/20/2006

 

K sports are adjustable so what do you mean? you want something other than k sports or what's the question?

 

Spring rates arent adjustable........ only the dampner part is......

 

Which spring rate should i choose?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solerizr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Which spring rate should i choose?</TD></TR></TABLE>

In my opinion, neither of them. They're both suboptimal for both conditions you've listed. JDM spring rate bias supporters will say differently though.

However, if you insist on staying with those rates, then you want the eg front and teg rear rates, 10k front and 7k rear. If you can't do that, take the eg rates.

Though, enjoy the street driving on a 7k rear spring. Thats a 400 lbs/in spring, which I've been daily driving in my Integra for a year now. Potholes pwn me, and the girlfriend wants a sports bra to ride in it. And thats in a heavy 00 GSR, the lighter del slo will ride rougher with the same rates.

 

I posted this on a couple other forums as well, and i keep getting opposing answers.... i dunno who to believe.... who can give me some facts or data or something not based on opinion, or at least explain it more in depth plz

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solerizr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I posted this on a couple other forums as well, and i keep getting opposing answers.... i dunno who to believe.... who can give me some facts or data or something not based on opinion, or at least explain it more in depth plz </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, I'll try. However, I'm a software engineer, so don't expect me to be able to explain things very well.

In terms of total spring stiffness, a stiffer overall car will be more responsive. It will "take a set" sooner. However, there is only so much spring rate thats useful, because going too stiff will leave the tire hopping over rough pavement, reducing total traction. How much total spring is needed, is personal preference, road condition dependant, tire depoendant, etc... Meaning, there is no simple answer to "How much spring do I need?".

In terms of front to rear spring bias, this is a very heavily covered topic, but mostly in the archives. Most FWD racers here in America seem to prefer a rear biased spring rate setup, meaning the rear of the car is stiffer than the front. A stiffer rear will keep more traction available to the inside front tire, and keep more weight on the front tires altogether. Its will also reduce, and if taken far enough, create oversteer, in our normally understeering FWD cars. This is a good thing for handling in the handle of a knowledgable driver. Its also a recipe for spinning on the freeway if you don't know what you're doing. My car likes to swap ends if you brake while turning, for example. Thank gawd autocross is a safe environment to test out the vehicle's limits in.

Over in Japan, they seem to run with a heavier front spring bias. The arguments I've heard, as to why, all center around lower ride heights, smoother track surfaces, and stickier tires. If we had those things over here, we'd probably end up running a more front biased spring rate as well. They also use staggered tires and offsets and "interesting" alignments to help with understeer.

This is why you see the JDM coilover setups all running higher front rates. Since the rear spring rate seems to effect ride quality the most, its also a more comfortable setup for daily driver use.

You are going to get all kinds of answers. There is no best setup, only the best setup for a given driver under given conditions. What works best for me won't work best for you, we don't drive with the same driving style. Same with comfort levels. I think my 400/400 (7k/7k) rates are great for street driving, and perfectly comfortable. My girlfriend wants a sports bra to ride in it, and thinks its entirely too stiff to be comfortable.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Over in Japan, they seem to run with a heavier front spring bias. The arguments I've heard, as to why, all center around lower ride heights, smoother track surfaces, and stickier tires. If we had those things over here, we'd probably end up running a more front biased spring rate as well. They also use staggered tires and offsets and "interesting" alignments to help with understeer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe they widen the front track as well, which necessitates a bump in spring rate due to a "larger" motion ratio. A higher front rate on these cars will also lend itself to more desirable suspension frequency (relative to a higher rear spring rate setup), in terms of ride comfort, generally.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ok, I'll try. However, I'm a software engineer, so don't expect me to be able to explain things very well.

In terms of total spring stiffness, a stiffer overall car will be more responsive. It will "take a set" sooner. However, there is only so much spring rate thats useful, because going too stiff will leave the tire hopping over rough pavement, reducing total traction. How much total spring is needed, is personal preference, road condition dependant, tire depoendant, etc... Meaning, there is no simple answer to "How much spring do I need?".

In terms of front to rear spring bias, this is a very heavily covered topic, but mostly in the archives. Most FWD racers here in America seem to prefer a rear biased spring rate setup, meaning the rear of the car is stiffer than the front. A stiffer rear will keep more traction available to the inside front tire, and keep more weight on the front tires altogether. Its will also reduce, and if taken far enough, create oversteer, in our normally understeering FWD cars. This is a good thing for handling in the handle of a knowledgable driver. Its also a recipe for spinning on the freeway if you don't know what you're doing. My car likes to swap ends if you brake while turning, for example. Thank gawd autocross is a safe environment to test out the vehicle's limits in.

Over in Japan, they seem to run with a heavier front spring bias. The arguments I've heard, as to why, all center around lower ride heights, smoother track surfaces, and stickier tires. If we had those things over here, we'd probably end up running a more front biased spring rate as well. They also use staggered tires and offsets and "interesting" alignments to help with understeer.

This is why you see the JDM coilover setups all running higher front rates. Since the rear spring rate seems to effect ride quality the most, its also a more comfortable setup for daily driver use.

You are going to get all kinds of answers. There is no best setup, only the best setup for a given driver under given conditions. What works best for me won't work best for you, we don't drive with the same driving style. Same with comfort levels. I think my 400/400 (7k/7k) rates are great for street driving, and perfectly comfortable. My girlfriend wants a sports bra to ride in it, and thinks its entirely too stiff to be comfortable.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Great explaination.

How do you find your spring rates on the track? Too soft? And are you running a upgraded rear bar to help with rotation?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chillinit &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great explaination.

How do you find your spring rates on the track? Too soft? And are you running a upgraded rear bar to help with rotation?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Holidays kept me from the computer.

My suspension is Koni Sports with GC 400/400 rates, GC upper mounts, SPC UCAs, and a Comptech rear swaybar set to stiffest. I use RT-615 Azenis in 205/40-16 (incorrect size for an Integra). I'vealso played with ride heights a bit, and found that adding some rake to the car adds rotation, as well as making it more stable at high speeds.

When I first installed everything, it felt fantastic. I did have a nice off at Willow Springs trying to get used to it, but seat time got me past the learning curve. Now, it feels a little too soft on track, and I'm still debating on how much stiffer I can live with. I'm leaning towards 550/600 rates, with the assumption that I can steal the girlfriend's car for anything but to/from work and heading to the track.

For autocross, I run -4.0* front camber, with the -1.2* rear camber lowering gave me, +3.5* caster, and 34/38 psi pressures hot. This gives me adequate rotation, but I wish the car took a set sooner, slalomns pwn me.

For Willow Springs (only track I've done HPDEs at), I keep the same alignment settings, but back the pressures off to 32/32 cold and set the shocks softer in the back than I do for autocross.

I think 400/400 is a great starting point for someone moving up from stock in an Integra. Its not absurdly stiff, but made a world of difference over stock suspension and a Comptech rear swaybar (my first HPDE was done that way) for me. From there, you'll have to fine tune to individual driving style, track, and tire differences.

 

Alright, i think im gonna go with 8k/8k Ksports, because i found out its free to go +/- 2k from the eg's off the shelf 10k/6k. ?