Hello, I need serious help with my set-up. I have been trying to tune my car for about 2 months now. Everytime I get on the dyno my tuners program shows the car goes lean as soon we hit Vtec. I am using Crome Pro and it keeps showing that injector duty cycle is at 100%+ and I am only at 9lbs using brand new 1000cc injectors running 60psi fuel pressure. I have went through everything, wire harness, fuel pump, ecus, map sensors, etc. Everytime it is the same problem. My conclusion being that I am a simple thinking person is that the program is saying 100% duty cycle when it is only at 10%. I NEED HELP BADLY. I would like to hear from anybody especially professional tuners. ( NEWS Flash!) problem has been found and fixed. It was the fuel damper on the stock fuel rail.

-95 Civic H/B Red

outside:

-16 Rota Slips (gun metal)
-205/40/16 tires
-new paint (Milano Red)
-carbon fiber hood
-vision carbon fiber mirrors
-CTR front lip (painted same color as car)

misc:

-power windows
-Si dash
-Broadway rearview
-GSR seats front and rear


suspension:

-Omni power coilovers (12k frt/ 10k rear)
-Energy suspension bushings
-new inner and outer tie rod ends
-new front wheel bearings
-Skunk 2 camber kit
-GSR front brakes

trans:

-B16 trans
-OEM Type R LSD
-ACT pressure plate
-ACT clutch disc
-Fidanza 8lb flywheel
-Energy suspension shifter bushings

engine:

-B18c1
- fresh 81.5 mm bore (0 miles to date)
-Cp 9:1 pistons
-Eagle rods
-Arp main studs
-Arp head studs
-Type R oil pump (new 0 miles to date)
-balanced and polished Type R crank
-new GSR water pump
-Endyn oil catch can

-B18c1 cyl head
-Pacific performance ported head
Rev std size stainless valves, new stem seals, new guides, 5 angle valve job, etc.
-CTR cams intake/exhaust

turbo system:

-Neukin ramhorn A/C manifold
-Neukin downpipe full 3 inch
-Neukin dumptube
-Tial 44mm wastegate
-Tial 50mm BOV
-Precision SC61 CHANGED TURBO to (brand new! T04R 67mm inducer .70 cover, 4inch inlet, ball-bearing center, P-trim .63 back, 4 bolt flange
-3 inch charge piping intercooler to TB
-2.5 inch turbo to intercooler
-30x11x3 bar and plate intercooler
- t-bolt clamps on all piping
-1000 cc Precision injectors
-Walbro 255
-Aeromotive 1:1 fpr
-full 3inch mandrel bent exhaust


Modified by VtecCarHauler at 2:18 AM 12/29/2006


Modified by VtecCarHauler at 9:31 PM 12/29/2006

 

I am no tuner by far.....only know what I have read on here but it kinda sounds like your only tuning the low maps and not the high map also????

I'm running 17-24 psi on 1000cc injectors daily driven and they're not close to maxing out.

Are you also sure you set your engine management to run on 1000cc injectors?

Hopefully a more educated tuner chimes in here......

 

have you logged your fuel pressure ?

 

i believe 60 psi of fuel pressure is your problem. lower it to 32 psi.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92redhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i believe 60 psi of fuel pressure is your problem. lower it to 32 psi.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you sir need to lay off the crackpipe.

 

Are you using a wideband to determine if it's going lean or not?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you sir need to lay off the crackpipe. </TD></TR></TABLE>

x2

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92redhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i believe 60 psi of fuel pressure is your problem. lower it to 32 psi.</TD></TR></TABLE> ? ???????????????? how will that fix the problem??lol

You have any logs? If they are static it will lean out linear with rpm. you have a fuel system issue either way.

also, what ems?


Modified by uglyasscivic at 8:05 AM 12/20/2006

 

Oh, I think I might know what it is.

1000cc injectors need a resistor box or injector driver, are you using one?

 

isnt 60 psi at idle way to high???? Just a suggestion. I dont have any expierience with 1000cc injectors.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have you logged your fuel pressure ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am using Crome PRo. I do not know of any way to log fuel pressure using crome, <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh, I think I might know what it is.

1000cc injectors need a resistor box or injector driver, are you using one? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a resistor box. I am still leaning towards the resistor box being the problem because it is the only thing I can think of that has something to do with the injector signal.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by uglyasscivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ? ???????????????? how will that fix the problem??lol

You have any logs? If they are static it will lean out linear with rpm. you have a fuel system issue either way.

also, what ems?


Modified by uglyasscivic at 8:05 AM 12/20/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do not have any logs of the runs. Now that you brought up the point of " if the injectors are wide open it should lean out linear" I will check into it. I and about 5 other people watched the fuel gauges as I was doing the pulls and the fuel pressure was solid. The 1:1 fpr would raise the pressure about 5 psi towards the end of each pull. Since I am using a Walbro intank and heard stories about them I put in a new one on the dyno and had the same problem. I also used a vise and crimped the return line to the pump to see if it had any effect and the fuel pressure, it went to 100psi fast.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am no tuner by far.....only know what I have read on here but it kinda sounds like your only tuning the low maps and not the high map also????

I'm running 17-24 psi on 1000cc injectors daily driven and they're not close to maxing out.

Are you also sure you set your engine management to run on 1000cc injectors?

Hopefully a more educated tuner chimes in here......</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I know it doesn't make sense at all. 1000cc at 100%+ duty cycle making 348whp on 9lbs with 13.3 afr, makes no sense at all!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92redhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">isnt 60 psi at idle way to high???? Just a suggestion.
I dont have any expierience with 1000cc injectors.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no comment

 

I have changed almost everything in a real simple manner, one little thing at a time. I am use to having problems and I am usually good at solving them. I have had alot of people trying to solve the problem with me. It is a real pain in the ***! I am wondering how I could find out what ohms the injectors need to function properly. Just trying to figure it out in the most rational way. I am almost certain it is the voltage problem with the injectors. I also changed injectors on the dyno as well to brand new 1000cc injectors and same problem. The main problem is the high duty cycle for only 348whp@ 9lbs. My Analogy: (Its like your fuel gauge showing a empty tank when it is really full). So far may check list is as follows:

-fuel pressure (good)
-map sensor (good)
-ecu (good) switched about 4 different ecus on the dyno
-injectors (good) they r brand new and the old ones acted the same way as the new ones
-wiring (good) I took a Civic dx harness checked every wire from start to finish and soidered all connections.

 

DId you say what pump you are running

 

Are you positive they are actually 1000cc injectors? Do they have writing on them, or did you have them flowed?

 

You mind posting/emailing the bin?

Crome's duty cycle is way off. Take it with a grain of salt.

Check the fuel filter too

 

watch the fuel pressure while on the dyno to see what's it doing...

1000cc injectors at 60psi base pressure will support quite a bit of power if your fuel pump is up to par.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you positive they are actually 1000cc injectors? Do they have writing on them, or did you have them flowed?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes they are 1000cc brand new out the box.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You mind posting/emailing the bin?

Crome's duty cycle is way off. Take it with a grain of salt.

Check the fuel filter too </TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe it is, I know it's not even running 40% duty cycle. I will try to get the bin file

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16adx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DId you say what pump you are running</TD></TR></TABLE>

brand new Walbro 255lpg

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Enzo-Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">watch the fuel pressure while on the dyno to see what's it doing...

1000cc injectors at 60psi base pressure will support quite a bit of power if your fuel pump is up to par.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah the pressure wasn't dropping all

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecCarHauler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Maybe it is, I know it's not even running 40% duty cycle. I will try to get the bin file</TD></TR></TABLE>

I tuned a setup like that. It is about 40%.

Just because the injectors are new does not mean they are good or the correct ones

 

I'll probably stop by your shop tomorrow and show you the car and set-up you guys are just around the corner from me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you positive they are actually 1000cc injectors? Do they have writing on them, or did you have them flowed?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i second this question........pull them out and have the flowed at a injector shop.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecCarHauler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll probably stop by your shop tomorrow and show you the car and set-up you guys are just around the corner from me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Goodluck working the problem out! Maybe you just have a bad resistor box or something cheap to fix.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecCarHauler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I am still leaning towards the resistor box being the problem because it is the only thing I can think of that has something to do with the injector signal.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This was the first thing I thought of when I began reading this thread. Did you change the resistor box? I'll ask around, maybe I can get some insight for you. Very complex predicament you have going on here. Keep us posted.

 

where is your fuel pressure guage mounted (on fuel rail or on fuel filter)?
...the reason I ask is that I had a similar situation where my fuel guage (mounted on my fuel filter) was showing about 60psi but when I mounted another fuel guage on the fuel rail it was only showing 20psi... the culprit in my case was a messed up "fuel dampner" which sits on the end of the fuel rail with a plastic pop off cover on it. This was definitely a pain in the a** to diagnose so I hope this is your problem and helps. Good luck

Btw my afr's werent too bad until around vtec engagement where they would go way lean which shouldnt have happened w/ 750cc injectors...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by markaria &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where is your fuel pressure guage mounted (on fuel rail or on fuel filter)?
...the reason I ask is that I had a similar situation where my fuel guage (mounted on my fuel filter) was showing about 60psi but when I mounted another fuel guage on the fuel rail it was only showing 20psi... the culprit in my case was a messed up "fuel dampner" which sits on the end of the fuel rail with a plastic pop off cover on it. This was definitely a pain in the a** to diagnose so I hope this is your problem and helps. Good luck

Btw my afr's werent too bad until around vtec engagement where they would go way lean which shouldnt have happened w/ 750cc injectors...</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah I have two gauges 1 on the filter and one on the Aeromotive fpr. They are both reading the same pressure.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Team_Carnage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This was the first thing I thought of when I began reading this thread. Did you change the resistor box? I'll ask around, maybe I can get some insight for you. Very complex predicament you have going on here. Keep us posted.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Today I picked up 2 different resistor boxes so I'll try them out.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i second this question........pull them out and have the flowed at a injector shop.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll keep that in mind. I ran the part #'s and they checked out fine. I will try to find somewhere in my area that can test the injectors.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cuin9sec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Goodluck working the problem out! Maybe you just have a bad resistor box or something cheap to fix.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


It is a stupid simple problem for sure. Simple little problems give the most trouble. I will try a different resistor box in the morning to see if it helps.