Well, lately I've been getting more serious about modifying my cars suspension and possible turbo setup. However, I'm wondering if its really worth it to modify my FF prelude, because of its front heaviness and the fact that it wasnt built for speed(and autox and the track) as other cars, like the mr2.
How would the mr2 compare? I know stock for stock it would embarass the prelude.. but when the preludes got some high spring rates in the rear, and a good sway bar, would it stand a chance then against a mister two? Is the MR layout just plain better for driving? If it is, I might have to sell and start anew... does the prelude have as much potential? I know its not a honda, but I'd appreciate honest answers. Its already boosted, and better balanced.. can the prelude compete?
I hope you guys see why I am questioning the lude.. why put all this money into a car that just didnt begin its life set up as good as other platforms? If the prelude could stand a chance... it would be a better car to live with.. but I'm not sure it really compares from a performance standpoint.
thanks, any help would be great.

 

I think it all depends on what you're looking to do with the cars. Auto-x, hpde...???

If you're just looking to modify a car for the heck of it, either car will do. Let us know what the purpose of the car would be and maybe we can help you out.

 

I am looking to improve the handling of the car for use on the autocross track and possible track days. I would like it to be fun on the street and track, and I'm afraid its considered a "waste" to shoot for 230whp in a FF. The prelude has decent balance, 58/42 I believe, but I'm not a huge fan of understeer--its easier but not as fun.
Can the prelude be set up for neutral/oversteer handling characteristics? Is it worth bothering to make it a powerful, good handling car or is it better to move onto a MR car?

 

Just about any FWD car can be made to oversteer. If you're looking to do autocross with the car, do you care if either car is competitive or are you just looking for a fun ride?

Sounds like you already have your mind made up, so go out and get an MR2.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikesta21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am looking to improve the handling of the car for use on the autocross track and possible track days. I would like it to be fun on the street and track, and I'm afraid its considered a "waste" to shoot for 230whp in a FF. The prelude has decent balance, 58/42 I believe, but I'm not a huge fan of understeer--its easier but not as fun.
Can the prelude be set up for neutral/oversteer handling characteristics? Is it worth bothering to make it a powerful, good handling car or is it better to move onto a MR car?</TD></TR></TABLE>

weight dist. on a prelude isn't 58/42 iirc. It's more like 61/39.

it can be made into a good handling car, for competitive events though, it all depends on classing.

230 whp will cost a pretty penny though, especially if you're going NA.

the ultimate problem with the prelude as a platform is that it's harder to get the really cool go-fast parts for it, compared to the EG/DC platform. stuff like camber adjustable A-arms, delrin/spherical bushings, and transmission parts.

 

haha my mind made up? not at all, don't take it that way.although my typing may seem like im all mr2, I really like the prelude, and I would like to stay with it, but being the "do it once, do it right" kind of guy, I would like to start soon with the daily driver I intend to keep. I do NOT plan on making it a race car, and as far autocross, I'd like it to be competitive, but IMO autocross is more driver based than car based. I would like it to handle either neutral or handle in such a way that it oversteers with ease. I think cars that do this are more "fun" to drive than an understeering stock prelude. the 230whp is a plan based on a DSM turbo setup. I would prefer the FI route, even with its dangers when things are not done correctly.
Now, the mr2 supposedly handles pretty good, ive never got to take one to its limits, so I can't speak to it. I'd just like to know, objectively, is the prelude a contender to this kind of MR setup? With stiff rear springs, it may be a pain to drive, but would it be as agile and entertaining on the track? Could it keep up, if the driver knew how to take advantage of the setup? This question somehow came out a little subjective, but i think you guys now know what I mean.

bad monkey--i know you have a lot of knowledge of the preludes capabilities.. how could the car perform when set up to oversteer? Would it be a snap oversteer(like the mr2), or would it be predictable. Would it still require provoking, like trail braking to transfer the weight, or would it oversteer with a quick turn of the wheel and some gas? Just trying to see what sort of potential the lude has.
Mike.

 

From an autocross standpoint, you're right: in stock classes, a well driven MR2 is much faster than a Prelude. So much so that they don't compete in the same class. And the conventional wisdom is that the Prelude is too heavy to be really (nationally) competitive in D-Stock, where it goes up against the similarly-powered but lighter ITR.

This is not to say that a Prelude can't be competitive, and a lot of fun, regionally. And I am guessing from your posts that you don't have much autox experience. So my advice would be to take the Prelude out to some local autox events and start learning. If you love it, and want to be faster/more competitive, you'll figure out what to buy. If it turns out autox isn't your thing, you'll be happy you didn't sell your car.

 

no man i autocrossed all summer! several times my car and once in a porsche 944. that car felt big and a little sloowwwww and heavy but i liked the oversteer feel. my question is can I achieve that witha prelude, can I set up the suspension to respond to throttle steering, or will a FWD never do that, period?

 

what is your current suspension set-up on the prelude?

When I used to run autocross with my prelude (in STS & NASA auto-x), I ran a larger rear sway bar (ST or Progress) with OTS Koni Yellows with Ground Control coilovers (600R,450F). The car was lowered enough (not slammed) to give ~3 degrees static negative camber in the front ~1.5 degrees static negative camber in the rear. I ran the older style Azenis & was able to play with tire pressures to allow the car to rotate/oversteer better. It was a good set-up where I had a lot of fun. However, it was still a heavy car that also needed a LSD. I had to drive the ***** off it to be competitive & even then, it usually wouldn't win regionally.

But, if you just want to have fun with your prelude in autox & maybe eventually HPDE's, the above suspension changes are relatively inexpensive & will help with rotation. Upgraded Rear sway bar = $250 (If you get better endlinks, that's $100 more). OTS Koni Yellows = $600. Ground Control perches with custom springs = $300. So for approximately $1200 (even cheaper if you can buy used parts), you can help your prelude rotate. It'll be more fun than stock, but will never be dominant.

IMHO, if autocross is really your thing & you want to be competitive, you'd be better off with a competitive chassis right out of the box (ie. Miata, 89 Civic Si, etc.)

 

One summer does not count as "much experience".

 

One thing to look at is mods. While I've learned that go fast parts are no replacement for seat time, there are some nice to haves for HPDEs and AutoX. Things like adjustable camber, adjustable rear sway bar, good brake pads, a set of awesome tires, coil overs, etc. Look at the price and availability of these parts for each platform and see what the total build out cost is for your toy. You didn't mention budget, but since you aren't looking for a Cayman S, I'll guess that it is a factor. My M3 was an awesome car, but I drive a CRX on the track now, because I could buy a whole new car for the price of pads and rotors on an M3.

Also, if this is to be a daily driver too, there are some practical concerns. A stripped out MR2 with a cage is neat, but it will get old in about 2 mins on the street. If you were going to dump the Prelude for anything I'd go for a Civic or Teg. Tons of cheap performance parts, reliable, competative, and practical.

PS buy granracing's book. Good practical stuff in there for the starter.

EDIT: PPS my CRX now rotates nice and progressively. Quite a feat for a short wheel base. FWD oversteer can occur.

EDIT2: Also don't expect a Prelude to ever handle like a Porsche. Even a cheap one. I used to have a 944 (I also used to have a Prelude) - one of the most balanced and neutral cars ever. My M3 felt smooth as silk gliding through turns. In the CRX I feel like I am flogging a 17yr old econo car, but I run faster times in the CRX! Oh and it costs a lot less.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikesta21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
bad monkey--i know you have a lot of knowledge of the preludes capabilities.. how could the car perform when set up to oversteer? Would it be a snap oversteer(like the mr2), or would it be predictable. Would it still require provoking, like trail braking to transfer the weight, or would it oversteer with a quick turn of the wheel and some gas? Just trying to see what sort of potential the lude has.
Mike.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the car's a little sloppy when it's set up too loose. It's hard to say without getting into the specifics of the setup, but assuming you want a streetable suspension, i'm guessing your spring rates will be 600# or less and you'll have an interior etc.

My STX setup was:
450/550
progress 27mm rear sway
stock front sway
-2 degrees all around (ideally i'd have bumped up to -3 in front or more.)
215/45/16 azenis 215's
can't remember the ride height or the specific tire pressures anymore.

basically, the car wasn't a snap oversteer monster, and it didn't take much to get it to rotate, but there were times when it rotated too much (and i'm not a good enough driver to take advantage of that) especially with the front sway disconnected. that said, the car CAN be pretty fast, and definitely fun to drive w/ the right rubber and enough negative camber in addition to the typical things done to a FF honda. 235/40/17 RA-1's on 17x8's felt good at the few track days i went to, and the car was pretty fast and a lot of fun.

so yeah, it's possible. it won't feel like a RWD car, and the standard rules of driving the **** out of a fwd car still apply, but i think with the power and the right suspension bits it'll definitely be fun. more fun than an MR2? not sure, but i enjoyed it when my car was "***** to the wall."

 

if youre more into autoxing then a prelude type sh would be better.....less understeer. but for drag racing a base prelude is better.