Anyone know the real reason behind NHRA not allowing the auto tranny in the ecotech cars for sfwd? I mean I personally think it would be b/c they would start to dominate the class like they have started to do in the pro classes. I mean if you built 2 identical 700whp cobalts but 1 was an auto and the other was a manual, I think that the auto would win every time. Now my buddy thinks I am naive for thinking that but why else would they be banned? I mean it takes a lot of skill out of driving but its consistent and they are fast. The excuse couldnt be b/c its a sportsman class, b/c we all know that BS. The sportsman classes are supposed to be for streetable cars, well the integra that tony drives is just as much of a street car as Ballards Cobalt. You COULD drive both to the store if you wanted. So with it being a street car class and both complying to those rules whats the reason that there is no auto allowed? Both tony and ballard's cars have an undisclosed hp and the cobalts are a heavier car than the hondas that race the class. The hondas are in the 2500lbs range and the cobalts are closer to 3000lbs. So there is a weight advantage there and I believe that ballards fastest time is in the 9.20's in TS trim. I mean pro class guys with honda power plants are bolting up the GM trannies so they have to be good for something. I mean I just believe that the auto tranny will be more consistent and faster than a manual, in cars of equal weight, engine, power, chassis setup with the same driver. I mean would Gary Gardello (sp?) be running the times that he is now and as consistently if his car was a manual? Eggum is in the high 7's (which is badass) but are there any manually shifted (use of clutch) running in the low 7's high 6's that the GM cars are? I guess its hard to say b/c I havent seen anyone build a cobalt with the 5 speed, but you get what I am saying. I know the ecotech engines are badass but its not like the honda guys in the class are making less power than what the ecotech can make. Just threw that last line in b/c NDRA has a 66mm limit on the ecotech and k series engines.

This thread wasnt made for everyone to go off on nhra rules and all that **** and trying to allow the cars in the class and all that. Frankly I dont give a damn, I cannot afford to build one of these cars and be close to competitive, thats why I dont care but, I just really want to know if I am completely wrong in my thinking or thats a reason that NHRA wont allow the cars.

 

GM automatic race transmissions have proven themselves time and time again. The Camaro/Trans Am automatic transmission are faster stock for stock than the 6-speed tranny.

Most high hp RWD drag Chevrolets run automatics because of their reliability, consistency, and unlike most automatics they don't rob your power through the torque converter and soleniod pack.

I figure GM has used that same technology in their FWD automatic trans. That's probably why they're banned to somewhat keep an equal playing field. **** look at most Pro RWD Sport Compacts. What transmission are most of those guys running?? Variants of GMs Powerglide or 3-speed!!!

 

the auto trannies are awesome that GM has. They have really stepped it up and have made a FWD tranmission be reliable and consistant. Look at gary gardella he dominated 2 sesaons ago with the hydromatic trans. It has taken other people several years just for them to make a complete race without a tranny failure. Plus I am guessing the cost is another reason why. I looked up a auto from DCR for my Neon and the one they use in the mopar SRT is over 8k!!! I am guessing its the same for the ecotecs as well. Plus nobody wants to see the same car winning race in and race out, it just scared people away.

Personally i have always been opposed of factory support from GM in the sportsman classes. yeah sure some technical help is great but a factory backed car is something that should be used for the pro classes. Not all of us can afford what GM brings to the track every race. Personally speaking I think factory backed cars should be limited to pro classes only just to keep it fair.

 

i didnt read the whole post because i am on my way out the door, BUT if i remember correctly, the trannies they are using are the 3800 trannies which are NOT OE TO THE BLOCK. same pertains to the h to b application. i dont think it is that an auto is not allowed, racerstev runs one in his neon, it is the fact that the 3800 tranny is not OE to the ecotec block.

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.

 

The reason the cobalts arent allowed is because they run a 4t65 tranny which is not the original cobalt tranny which is the 4t45. As for what they have those trannys are pretty stock with the exception of a lsd and i think upgraded 4th. It would be cool to see maybe the cobalts with a higher min weight and maybe a smaller turbo be able to run NHRA Sport FWD. But as of right now its a big no no.

 

Or just allow a adapter plate so the Hondas can run the GM auto tranny

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxmatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or just allow a adapter plate so the Hondas can run the GM auto tranny </TD></TR></TABLE>This would be an option if you have a K. If you choose to keep a B-series like we have, you would have to reverse the rotation of the engine. That is just to much work, along with a weight penalty (Hot Rod)
We will stick with our H-pattern Trans (It gets the job done)

 

The reason that the trans is not allowed in NHRA is for the reasons posted above. The 4t65 came in the V6 cars. It did not coming in the cobalt. For that reason it is banned.
For the other questions the trans is not far from stock. There are some upgraded parts and it is only a 3 speed. As for cost, you can order one from GM for around 6k.

as for what the ProRWD cars are running for trannys. Most of the run a lanco,or a Gforce or something along those lines. They also run a clutch because of its adjustability. The only car that I know of this year that ran a torque converter in ProRWD was Kevin with the TransAm and even his was hooked up to a Lanco.

TSXracing......Just a question. Would you be so against factory support if you were getting it from Honda or any other company. Not try to start any problems just asking if you would turn it down if it was offered.

The cost to build a car along the lines of Brians is not that much different than what it would cost you to build a good Honda.

Dan.

 

The cobalts with a 5 spd would be a great addition to SFWD!


Modified by tony1 at 9:41 PM 12/19/2006

 

You sure about that?

 

nice replies, I was kinda expecting to get flamed. But in the GM build book it shows how to build a auto tranny to support the power and no where in it did it say that it was a different tranny, but not knowing the difference that would be an easy assumption. I think it would be sweet to see some cobalts out there with the manual tranny just to see some diversity. That motor is capable of a lot of power so lets see what it will do.

 

Not a sfwd ish class cobalt either...

 

Yea i know im thinking something in the hotrod\pfwd form. But if its the same car they will be autos.

 

I guess we'll see come next year...

 

anyone know of anyone thinking of build a sfwd cobalt?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FMUNK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This would be an option if you have a K. If you choose to keep a B-series like we have, you would have to reverse the rotation of the engine. That is just to much work, along with a weight penalty (Hot Rod)
We will stick with our H-pattern Trans (It gets the job done)</TD></TR></TABLE>

beat me to it jeromie.
btw how goes things?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by josh green &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyone know of anyone thinking of build a sfwd cobalt?</TD></TR></TABLE>

How about a sfwd nitrous-only Cavalier?

Although I'm sort of kicking myself for not going wilder on the build since its a mild 11:1 motor with not alot of cylinder head it should hold enough nitrous for low 11s/high 10s...but with this years craptacular n/a performance, who knows.

Now whether or not I'll have the time/money to make it to any NHRA events is another matter entirely.

Now to keep it on topic a little, Hahn Racecraft's sunfire had no problems going mid-11s with a Getrag F23 , and I believe it was in sfwd trim.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EcotecOwen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How about a sfwd nitrous-only Cavalier?

Although I'm sort of kicking myself for not going wilder on the build since its a mild 11:1 motor with not alot of cylinder head it should hold enough nitrous for low 11s/high 10s...but with this years craptacular n/a performance, who knows.

Now whether or not I'll have the time/money to make it to any NHRA events is another matter entirely.

Now to keep it on topic a little, Hahn Racecraft's sunfire had no problems going mid-11s with a Getrag F23 , and I believe it was in sfwd trim.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the hahn racecraft sunfire runs a automatic also....
I think it would be interesting to see what a 2900+ cobalt would do on 24.5's, well have to see what santa brings us,,, maybe a sportfwd legal trannie

 

At that weight and those tires, why not petition to stick with the tranny you run now on Brians car?

That thing is heavier than most Pro Outlaw cars at that weight.

 

Transbrakes are the **** I would put a powerglide on my street honda if I could make it work

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The cobalts with a 5 spd would be a great addition to SFWD!


Modified by tony1 at 9:41 PM 12/19/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

working on the 5 spd now tony 1

 

My only issue with the rule is that it is not the same for SFWD and SRWD. The SRWD cars can run a 6 cylinder trans on a 4 cylinder engine...so why is it different for SFWD? If you think that the Cobalt on 24.5s with an Air to Air wouldn't run the same times or slower than Tony1's almighty car, then I think that you are all kidding yourselves.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XXXRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My only issue with the rule is that it is not the same for SFWD and SRWD. The SRWD cars can run a 6 cylinder trans on a 4 cylinder engine...so why is it different for SFWD? If you think that the Cobalt on 24.5s with an Air to Air wouldn't run the same times or slower than Tony1's almighty car, then I think that you are all kidding yourselves. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed - when we have time to test more we will find out !!

 

i think it would be cool if the rules here to have only manual shifted cars

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GHOSTWORKS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think it would be cool if the rules here to have only manual shifted cars</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why is that? Because that is what your car is? We have a neon on the East Coast (Racer Steve) who has won SFWd races before and I'm sure will win more shortly.