I'm new to this site and if anyone can help me I'd be really good. I just got my itr swap done a couple of months ago and I want to increase my displacement. My friend said I should either bore out my cylinders or increase the stroke. I'm thinking about boring it to 81mm (since I'm planning on getting a turbo) and then adding a crower crankshaft, and 134mm acl rods. It doesn't matter about the lower rod ratio because I'm not planning on passing the redline. The thing is, I heard that I have to get rid of the oil squirters and I figure that can't be good for my brand new pistons. My question is do you think its worth the risk since it'll wear more and is there anyway to get around this problem.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for any replies.

 

The car is not an ITR, so this post should be in the hybrid forum.

 

Go turbo.

 

My car just has an ls shell which is more or less the same as the itr and my question is about an ITR engine but w/e I post in the hybrid section.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97itrswap &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My car just has an ls shell which is more or less the same as the itr </TD></TR></TABLE>
No, it's not.

 

I guess your right but the engine is fully ITR.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97itrswap &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess your right but the engine is fully ITR.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Therefor, it's a hybrid, QED.

 

1. your bore is already 81mm 0_o
2. wtf are acl rods?
3. if you want more displacment just sleeve and overbore
4. wrong forum

 

^ Exactly.

Get sleeved. Bored to 85mm, get a 91mm Crankshaft, with appropriate Rod/Piston combination. That bore/stroke will be 2,066cc or so.

You're diving into a big project, and a costly one at that.

If you want the simple route (The one I'm planning on), get an LS (89mm stroke, as opposed to the C5's 87.20mm) crankshaft. Get it balanced, and micropolished. Install that = Bigger 1.8.

1,835cc with LS crankshaft with 81mm bore. 1,798cc with C5 crankshaft with 81mm bore.

Or, I've been thinking about doing this... Not sure if it's possible or not, may be some clearance/compatibilty issues or something that I don't know about (I haven't really researched the plausibility). But this is what I'd really like to do:

-B18A1/B1 Block (Bored to 84mm)
-B18C5/C1 Rods (137.90mm)
-B18A1/B1 Crankshaft (89mm Stroke)
-B20Z PHK Pistons (Higher CR B20 Piston, as opposed to P3F B20B)
-1-Layer Headgasket

Which would yeild around 11.4:1CR, and would be 1,973cc or so. All of those parts are really easy to come by, and the only expense would be having the entire rotating assembly balanced (Not really necessary... But I like to rev). That Compression Ratio would be perfect for some aggressive cams, and over all would offer some great torque and over all power. I'm thinking about giving it a shot this summer.

Also, the oil squirters DO NOT have to be removed with a larger crankshaft, they can simply be bent back. But a lot of builders are just removing them, and welding up the holes.


Modified by GO-FIGHT-KILL at 8:52 PM 12/16/2006

 

Most that remove the squirters can do so because forged pistons are used, and then they're not really needed. But I have never heard of anyone welding the holes, the common practice is to plug them, I know GE for instance sells a kit.

If you want longer stroke, get a 92mm stroke crank (Scat or Crower) and something like the Endyn Rollerwave pistons, they are available in 84.5mm - 86.5mm bore to fit in a B18 block together with the mentioned stroke crank and a 5.531" rod. The rods are shelf parts available from Eagle, or Endyn can supply you with some nice Crower pieces.

Either way, it's no point in spending $$ on a longer stroke without also sleeving the block and increasing the bore IMHO.

 

Just some input, migs removed his oil squirters with OEM internals.

Good information Pondus.

 

Unless the wrist-pin location is higher on those pistons, you won't be able to use the C5 rods with an LS crank in an LS block. The B18A/B has the same deck height as the C1/5.

What I'd like to do is get a C1 block, sleeve and bore to 85 mm, then drop in a B17A crank to de-stroke it back down to around 1,800 cc. Use forged pistons with a CR near 11.5:1, lightweight rods (I'd need custom-length rods anyway). Port the head, then drop in some VTEC killers and ITBs.

 

From what I can see... B18A1/B1's deck height is 211.84mm, and the B18C1/C5's deck height 212.39mm. I could be wrong.

If the C1/C5 rods cannot be used, then that kind of sucks... .95mm of a difference between C1/C5 and LS rods. Using the C1/C5 rods constitutes about 1:1CR with this setup. So instead of 11.4:1CR with C1/C5 rods, it'll be 10.4:1 with the LS rods. Damn, that sucks.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MK Ultra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What I'd like to do is get a C1 block, sleeve and bore to 85 mm, then drop in a B17A crank to de-stroke it back down to around 1,800 cc. Use forged pistons with a CR near 11.5:1, lightweight rods (I'd need custom-length rods anyway). Port the head, then drop in some VTEC killers and ITBs. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Interesting... So the point of this would to maintain the displacement and response of the C5, with a shorter stroke, which means revving a whole lot deeper? I guess that's why you'd want to use VTEC Killers.

How deep would you want to go with that setup?

 

Only 9,000 or so.

The main idea is to get razor-sharp response. The VTEC killers lighten the valvetrain significantly, and the ITBs should help throttle response. Meanwhile, the engine would hopefully last longer due to slower piston speeds resulting from the shorter stroke. Better for sustained high-rpm operation, like on a track.

 

Sounds like a good theory... Sounds like something I might give a stab at one day when I have more money in my pocket.

 

Thanks for the responces guys. Sorry for posting in the wrong forum but no one was posting in the hybrid one. The ACL rods I was talking about come with the crower stoker kit and its gonna cost me about 2 grand with a new crankshaft. I don't think I'm gonna swap in a new block since I just got my new one. I have to resleeve my cylinders anyways because I'm burning oil like crazy and my compression is horrible. I think I'll resleeve it and use the crower kit but someone said with a turbo I shouldn't go more than 87mm is that true?


Modified by 97itrswap at 5:11 PM 12/18/2006

 

That may not have anything to do with your sleeves, it may just be your rings, or ring lands, or Hell, even your valve seals.

Why would the stroke matter with boost? Stock LS is 89mm stroke, and people boost those blocks all the time with no issues. And you do realize with even a stock B18C5, you're over that 87mm mark, right? Stock C1/C5 crankshafts are 87.2mm.

 

i think the mechanic was talking about the sleeves.. something about the cylinders being too close together to shave of more than 87 or so

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97itrswap &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think the mechanic was talking about the sleeves.. something about the cylinders being too close together to shave of more than 87 or so</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok you lost me. shave off 87 what from the sleeves?

 

sorry my bad i wasnt very clear i meant the cylinder walls (sleeves) he said since the cylinders are siamised (dont know how to spell it) if i bore out the cylinders to anything more than 87 i would risk damaging my engine epecially with a turbo

 

... Your mechanic's a moron.

Your BORE is 81mm. Which is the diameter of each cylinder wall, from side to side. Your STROKE is 87.2mm, which has nothing to do with the cylinder walls, that number is derived from the crankshaft alone.

There would be no reason to bore anymore than stock 81mm for a light turbo setup. I think you're confused... You just need to learn some basic automotive knowledge before you modify your car anymore, you're just going to mess it up.

Not being an ***, just being honest.

 

your right i should find out more dou know any good sites, articles?

 

You're on the best informational Honda site in the world.

Just wander around, read up on other people's builds. The hybrid and all motor sections are a great place to learn what others are doing.

Just stay in the car game, and you'll pick up on it, it just takes time.

 

True, I gotta read about this a lot more. Thanks for all the help.

 

go to http://www.howstuffworks.com and search for anything automotive related. it'll give you a very good understanding of the basics. make the search button here your best friend.