Hi everyone,

I have a 92 hatch along with a b18a1 engine completly stripped

so far from what ive read and about to possibly be schooled on here is some of the things i plan on doing with it.

new valvetrain package from http://www.honda-performance.com/valve-train.asp
this includes, valves, springs, retainers, and a block guard.

then the next thing would be to get the arp head bolts from.. somewhere
along with some pistons , and piston rods, from possibly from http://www.honda-performance.com some 9.0:1 or like 12.5:1 or 13.0:1

so the goal is possibly well as much as possible, this will be a daily driver or 2nd show/daily driver who knows at this point

so basicly turbo this thing or na it to hell?

currently i have a the orignal b18 head i do not plan on porting and polishing it.

If i went NA ive been told do the b16 head and get that over with and go that route, along with na and some lumpy cams and also enabling vtech.

on the turbo route , go b18 head no port and polish and set the goal around 14-18 psi.
along with depending on what peoples arguments are here, bore the block out and sleeve it, ive been told that sub 10 psi is fine for a boosted car, much more then that requires sleeving, id like to hear some arguments on that, honostly safe rather then sorry in this instance.


as for the ecu, the civic cx i have now has a dx ecu which i looked and it is a p06 ecu which ive found out it is well supported by hondata and neptune, as for the fuel management its sorta up in the air, but hondata has quite a bit of support for local tuning shops which is a bonus.

so another question is, everyone keeps telling me to use the p28 or p72 ecu, now my agument is, if there are 5 ecus supported by all the tuning software what makes 1 ecu stick out that the other 4 arnt as good at?

Im basicly looking for ideas here and reputable places to buy some products at.

thanks in advance.

Lemme know what you all think

 

Only you can decide if you want boost or N/A because you will see the people on here are gonna try to convince you ones better when theres no right answer. As far as reputable companies go on the sponsors marketplace and you will find everything you need with good customer service and prices. Whatever route you go make sure you do it right the first time and dont cut corners and goodluck.

 

yeah,

well as for cutting corners the car was 1800, as for the labor its all me really, and the corners to cut, ive prettymuch guesstamated that id like to spend around 3500-4000 ish for a fully working built engine that sound about right?

 

not with all new parts if your going boost. All motor thats realistic but a built and boosted prob expect more than that unless you piece together a turbo kit and use used pieces which in my opinion is the way to go. Dont forget either way youll need engine management and good tuning to protect your new beast so take that in to account when thinkin about prices. Sounds like you will have a nice little hatch though.

What are your power goals for this car? Do you want boost or N/A? Let me know your goals other than being able to dd or show it and i can try to help a little more.


Modified by jsilva at 1:19 AM 12/14/2006

 

Ooooooooh


don't get me wrong here, i didn't include the turbo parts in that price, although the only difference in my mind in terms of building it for turbo or not would still be all thoes parts included except low comp pistons rather then high comp ones
i figure the turbo parts will add another 1200-2000 depending on what i want, also not including fuel management, body work and paint i dont really count as i do them all..

but i guess the question still remains, what do i really need?


power goals are simply above 300 , which can be easily done from other cars, and as far as NA goes its 200-250ish, although turbo is much more fun IMO, but im up for debate, in terms of "holy ****" factor.

as for boost, the cutoff for sleeved and not sleevd? even 1bar - 18 ish psi on 93 octane. although boost level is up for debate also, and fuel is expensive...

 

Sounds like boost will be your easiest bet since 300 plus whp is very attainable. Pistons rods and a good turbo and your well beyond that within the money range you were thinking. The whole ls and ls/vtec thing is also something you will want to consider. There are alot of people who hate them but if you build them the right way i have seen some great results so just throwin that out there. Then again there is nothing wrong with a nice build too.

And to answer your ecu question from before a p28 is already a vtec ecu but from a sohc vtec and socketed for it where as your p06 would need to be converted to run a vtec motor properly but it will be the same after all since you would need to chip either one with tuning program capable of running your ls/lsvtec. A p72 is the usdm gsr ecu.

And forget about the block guard since there useless. I know people runnin 18 pounds unsleeved with no problems at all.


Modified by jsilva at 1:41 AM 12/14/2006

 

so basicly the idea is turbo + vtec?

as the kit on the orignal post mentioned from kms performance that whole thing comes with the block guard.

and as for engine life.. how long has your 18psi friend been running that engine.

as for the vtec turbo setup, would the best bet on thoes tunes, generally to have the vtec point switch over during turbo spool?

If the turbo spools at 3k would you want vtec to come on shortly after that?


ive just heard that having vtec along with a turbo is just another bag of worms to tune.

 

Talk to the folks @ Ground Zero Motorsports. They are now located in Tualatin. They did most of the work on my H22 - 92 hatch, have dynos for cars and motorcycles, work with Golden Eagle, Precision, Hondata and lots of other well known names. They provide good support for both work and parts secured through their business.
Brian, their lead tuner/builder is sharp and will share information with you. Shop does mostly Honda but lots of Nissan, Mazda, Supra, Chevy etc. work.

 

Having vtec will not be anymore difficult to tune for a good tuner and also there are many people who have ran 18 plus psi for years without issue. Its honestly dependant on lots of factors and the tune is a huge 90plus percent of it. If your turbo spools at any rpm it doesnt matter you want vtec to engage when it is most effective to switch to the more aggresive cam and doesnt really matter to much if your looking at low spooling turbos like that. For example my buddies car vtec comes on around 5600 rpm with redline at 8500 again its all about how you and your tuner want the car to run.

 

Well,

I think if I do anything ill try and find a cam between the low cam lobe and the vtec lobe and get something in the middle, and avoid using vtec. and just deal with a lumpy idle or slightly lumpy.

as for the blockguard, the thing comes with the valvetrain package, so i might as well use it.

but the engine i have has 105k on it, and dosent look like it was treated very well, the cyl's appear to be pretty good except for the top looks like theres some extra wear, so i will need to have them bor'ed but if they are bored out, ill need to obtain the service manual for the engine, and i believe i have it actually more looking for the "1300-1500 page PDF of the b18a1 engine "
I suppose when i get home from work i can simply take a gauge and measure the walls within some... or not even close degree of accuracy...

But the point is, ill have to have the cyl's bored some amount so i might as well have it sleeved.. but i guess i can increase the displacement but dont really know what the max you can over bore it and still run a decent amount of boost. "I suppose i could check the hayes manual i have on the engine specs to determin how much i can over bore it.

other then that i guess more in terms of specifics i should be buying brands ext..

 

I think your going a little too fast for yourself right now. The whole cam thing is your choice and depending on where you stand with vtec or not u can go from there. A few good cam choices for boost include gsr cams or typer or aftermarket of your choice. Crower seems to be popular and shows great results for the ls guys builds ive read. The whole boring thing is fine but you dont need the service manual for the b18a to have someone bore the block for you. As for bore sizes anything from stock 81mm to 84 seems to be a good choice and you could go more if you really desire. I dont see why your goals cant be reached on stock or 81.5mm bore which are very easy to find pistons for also. Before you just throw on a part because it comes with you kit i highly advise to read about it. I have heard bad stories about block guards but ill leave that research to you. As for sleeving the block unless your stock sleeves are cracked or look unusable its not necessary to do unless again its your preference and want that piece of mind of having a sleeved block.
Do me a favor and either list on here or pm me exactly how much boost hp what kind of spool you want etc
and then ill give you a better idea of what i think you should do but i honestly think from what im reading you need to keep doing your homework which is good before you build a serious engine like your talking about doing.