Greddy 15G kit installed on 1994 Civic DX with 1.5L SOHC non-VTEC motor, totally stock otherwise. Using the blue Greddy e-Manage box system from the kit.

Before installation I had no smoking and now I do. I have a few guesses, I would like to see if any of them may be right:

1) I took off the cat and installed one of those e-bay "cats" on there. This thing doesn't really look like a cat so perhaps it is smoke that the cat normally takes care of? Don't worry... a real cat is going back on in a few weeks along with a new muffler.

2) The boost from the turbo blew out some seals... the engine has 115k miles on it and has never seen a rebuild. Although, I was only losing 0.25 quarts per 3000 miles before the turbo... and I think that was from the oil pan gasket since it was encrusted with oil when I dropped it down.

3) The Greddy computer has me running too rich.

4) Crap is still burning out of the new parts... not likely since I drove it 75 miles today and it should be burnt off by now, but is still smoking.

----

The smoke appears at all times and increases in quantity with throttle. The smoke looks to be gray / black in color... although it was dark when I noticed so I could be mistaken.

Thanks in advance guys!

 

if the smoke is grey and black and you say the car is running rich it could be unburnt/excess fuel. Maybe try an adjustable FPR and play with the pressure watching the AFR's carefully, but a tune would be much safer.

 

is it tuned or your running the greddy maps?

if so arent the greddy maps for a 1.6 vtec motor?

 

It is running the Greddy maps. You are right, it is for the 1.6 VTEC according to the manual. Oddly, though, the car seems to idle and run very well... it just smokes.

PS: My list was things I was guessing about, I'm not SURE that it is running rich... but I guessed that it was a possibility that could cause smoking like that. I'm not sure that any of the items on the list are causing it, they are just my current best guesses


Modified by sundownz at 3:36 AM 12/14/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sundownz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is running the Greddy maps. You are right, it is for the 1.6 VTEC according to the manual. Oddly, though, the car seems to idle and run very well... it just smokes.

PS: My list was things I was guessing about, I'm not SURE that it is running rich... but I guessed that it was a possibility that could cause smoking like that. I'm not sure that any of the items on the list are causing it, they are just my current best guesses


Modified by sundownz at 3:36 AM 12/14/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

You need to get it tuned to confirm. Slapping on a turbo kit, especially one for a different engine/configuration, and then running blindly is NOT the way to do things.

 

how does the smoke smell?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You need to get it tuned to confirm. Slapping on a turbo kit, especially one for a different engine/configuration, and then running blindly is NOT the way to do things.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I realize that and I intend to have it tuned very soon, but I wanted to ask here first about the smoke.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by not2slo128 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how does the smoke smell?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It smells alot like chainsaw exaust, this leads me to believe it may be burning oil now thanks to the boost. Either way, it's going to a tuner ASAP once I get a few things done to it maintainance wise -- new cat, new muffler, water pump, timing belt... and cam gears will be going on as well for the tuner to adjust.

Since it is running smoothly... is it safe to assume it'll run okay for a few hundred miles until I get it tuned?

 

i wouldnt run it for "a few hundred" just grab those parts and have it tuned

 

If it's possible to damage the car I'll park it until I get the parts... so, do you honestly think that the smoking could hurt something? It seems to run fine and idles just like factory.

 

BUMP

Can running it on the 1.6L program hurt the engine? I'd like to know so I can park it tomorrow if necessary...

I've tried calling CP Racing all day and just get a busy signal. They were recommended to me in an old thread I made about doing a turbo setup. I sent them an e-mail so hopefully they get back to me and I can get in on Saturday.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sundownz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It smells alot like chainsaw exaust, this leads me to believe it may be burning oil now thanks to the boost. Either way, it's going to a tuner ASAP once I get a few things done to it maintainance wise -- new cat, new muffler, water pump, timing belt... and cam gears will be going on as well for the tuner to adjust.

Since it is running smoothly... is it safe to assume it'll run okay for a few hundred miles until I get it tuned?</TD></TR></TABLE>

So let me get this straight. Your car doesn't sound very well maintained and obviously you needed to do things like timing belt and water pump (90k service). So BEFORE you did these things you put the turbo on, didn't tune it, and now are somewhat shocked at the results? It never stops amazing me how many people just can't wait to boost that they rush into things only to wind up with problems like yours.

1). From what you have described, the car is using oil. You SHOULD be able to see this on the dipstick and thus confirming a problem with oil control and voiding the need to post here asking about the smoke. Since your car doesn't sound like its very well maintained, when is the last time you checked the PCV valve? A stuck open valve will cause all kind of issues once you pressurize the crankcase!

2). If its burning oil, its going to mess with a lot of things like fouling plugs, altering a/f ratio, causing detonation, etc. Its NOT a good idea to drive a damaged engine for any period of time unless you think your lucky. Its nothing more then gambling.

3). Cars will only smoke from three things. Oil, water, or gas. You either have oil in the chamber, coolant in the chamber, or too much fuel in the chamber. Check the radiator for a milky white residue that would point to headgasket. Check the dipstick for oil loss that would point to rings/stem seals, check for heavy black soot on the plugs and the exhaust to indicate excessive fuel entering the chamber. Most importantly, DO A COMPRESSION TEST and see what the condition of the engine is.


You shouldn't need to ask if running a car off a program that was designed for a different engine is smart. Thats not even taking into consideration that the Greddy setups are known to run extremely rich out of the box because this is considered as "safe" by thier standards. 5psi shouldn't kill that engine that quickly unless it had issues to begin with. Hell, I run 8psi daily on a stock internaled Z6 with 0 issues. Of course, I've tuned it though and that makes a big difference. Read what I have above, do some of the tests and see what you have. Ultimately iyour going to need to make the call on what you think is best for the vehicle. If you don't understand what you are dealing with, park the vehicle and wait until you can consult someone who does. Its better to be safe then sorry. Boost shouldn't be this much of a pain in the ***.

 

Wow... thanks for being hostile and assuming all kinds of things.

I just got the car recently, already with ~113k miles on it. I have already replaced the fuel filter, CV axels, brakes, brake rotors, spark plugs, plug wires, ignition cap, ignition rotor, changed the oil, replaced the shocks and springs, replaced several suspension bushings, and put on new tires.

Sound poorly maintained? I simply haven't gotten to the water pump and belt yet, but they are on my to-do list. I can't do everything at one time since I do have to drive the car too.

I had already planned to do a compression test on Saturday as well...

Anyway... I've checked out the smoking problem a bit more and talked to Greddy. I believe it is simply running far too rich and that it is not burning any oil at all.

I drove it very gently on the way home from work today and found that as long as I don't really get into boost it doesn't even start to smoke. If I do get in to boost it seems to run rich until I cut if off and get going again. If I take it easy, smoking doesn't occur at all.

I am not a turbo expert, that is true... but I'm not stupid. I didn't drive the car down to the track after I put it on... I haven't taken it over 5k RPM yet for that matter since I wasn't 100% sure about the tuning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sundownz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow... thanks for being hostile and assuming all kinds of things.

I just got the car recently, already with ~113k miles on it. I have already replaced the fuel filter, CV axels, brakes, brake rotors, spark plugs, plug wires, ignition cap, ignition rotor, changed the oil, replaced the shocks and springs, replaced several suspension bushings, and put on new tires.

Sound poorly maintained? I simply haven't gotten to the water pump and belt yet, but they are on my to-do list. I can't do everything at one time since I do have to drive the car too.

I had already planned to do a compression test on Saturday as well...

Anyway... I've checked out the smoking problem a bit more and talked to Greddy. I believe it is simply running far too rich and that it is not burning any oil at all.

I drove it very gently on the way home from work today and found that as long as I don't really get into boost it doesn't even start to smoke. If I do get in to boost it seems to run rich until I cut if off and get going again. If I take it easy, smoking doesn't occur at all.

I am not a turbo expert, that is true... but I'm not stupid. I didn't drive the car down to the track after I put it on... I haven't taken it over 5k RPM yet for that matter since I wasn't 100% sure about the tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't think I was hostile. I told you what I had observed was based on the things you mentioned here in your posts. Obviously, I don't know your whole life story.

If the car smokes that badly under 5psi then it must be running terribly rich in order for it to be this much of a problem. Especially since its passing through a cat and still caused this much concern. Either you are overly cautious (not a bad thing) or your problem is far more then fuel related. What did you do for management besides the emanage? Injectors?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sundownz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I drove it very gently on the way home from work today and found that as long as I don't really get into boost it doesn't even start to smoke. If I do get in to boost it seems to run rich until I cut if off and get going again. If I take it easy, smoking doesn't occur at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's probably the shitty maps on the Greddy computer that are making it run to rich. Stay outta boost until you get it tuned man, that's common sense.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't think I was hostile. I told you what I had observed was based on the things you mentioned here in your posts. Obviously, I don't know your whole life story.

If the car smokes that badly under 5psi then it must be running terribly rich in order for it to be this much of a problem. Especially since its passing through a cat and still caused this much concern. Either you are overly cautious (not a bad thing) or your problem is far more then fuel related. What did you do for management besides the emanage? Injectors?</TD></TR></TABLE>

My apology if you weren't trying to be hostile.

If you recall my original post I do not have a "real" cat on at this time. The factory cat was messed up (rusted out) so I put on an e-bay "high flow cat" for the time being, in reality those things are pretty much a resonator, as you probably know. It'll be that way for about 2 weeks until I get a replacement cat and muffler put on the car, at which time the e-bay unit will actually be used as a resonator in place of the factory unit. My brother mentioned that this could be part of the smoking issue, which I why I mentioned this in point #1 in the original posting.

The only management is the E-Manage system. I have no intention of upping the boost beyond the stock 5 PSI and based on what I have seen on here the factory injectors should be fine with such a low power goal. If this is not the case I would be open to doing something else with the fuel system, but my power goals aren't very high so I do not think it is necessary (I could be wrong?). I just want the car to get out of it's own way when the stereo system is finished.

 

I have a tuning appointment tomorrow at 1:00 PM, so I'll post back about how it runs then

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sundownz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a tuning appointment tomorrow at 1:00 PM, so I'll post back about how it runs then </TD></TR></TABLE>

Very nice. Let us know how it goes!

 

I took my car down to P1 Automotive in Fort Mill, SC today to get the tune down. I'll just make a point by point list about the day:

1) The guys at P1 are great, very helpful and willing to explain what they were doing. They also did not try to sell me anything I didn't need and, in fact, swayed me away from some expensive things.

2) It made 122 ft/lbs and 112 hp on their Mustang Dyno. Not too bad for a D15 with stock exaust. The car ran out of fuel injector capacity at ~5500 rpm or so... I'll be upgrading those, re-doing the exaust, and getting the Greddy ignition harness and getting it re-tuned later.

3) It is burning oil for sure and it's getting worse. It's NOT the turbo, I checked everything they told me to and it's fine. They also gave me some good advice on re-locating my oil pressure line, which I did when I got home.

4) My return line connection to the oil pan has a slow leak. I'll be welding this instead of bolting it this week.

So... I just need to fix the oil burning, buy the aforementioned parts... and go back for another tune... I'm hoping to see 140 - 150 HP on their dyno and I'll be good to go.

 

First off does it always smoke, smoke just under boost/load? I had a very weird thing happen when I turbo'd my car and it was due to the previous owner installing the pcv in the wrong direction allowing pressure to go to the crank case and it would smoke whenever I went into boost so I figure I had done something wrong and took it to every local shop and no one could figure anything out until I found someone on h/t with the same problem changed the pcv valve and no problems for about 2 yrs now

 

well, first off i wouldnt of boosted a motor that had a base map for another motor. second off i would of got it tuned before stepping into it. Honestly d series are cheap enough where u can just get another one for like 200 bucks if that. Id say find a new donor motor, drop that in and get a real tune and build another and call it a day.

 

Turboredteg,

I will try the PCV valve first. It smokes very little at idle but smokes ALOT when boost builds. So that may be part of it.

Were your spark plugs blackened? Because mine are.

----------

Black00em1,

I never went above 5k RPM before I went to the tuner, and I did take it as soon as possible. I talked to the guys about the "incorrect" MAP, and it really wasn't that bad off since I hadn't exceeded my injector capacity while driving with the D16 MAP in there. I wasn't stupid with it.

I think I will just go ahead and go through this motor and rebuild it to "like new" spec rather than buy a used motor in unknown condition. I'm looking into different pistons as well, so I would be tearing down a motor either way. I'll feel more comfortable with a motor that I have been through myself.

 

Blackened no, discolored a little.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sundownz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I took my car down to P1 Automotive in Fort Mill, SC today to get the tune down. I'll just make a point by point list about the day:

1) The guys at P1 are great, very helpful and willing to explain what they were doing. They also did not try to sell me anything I didn't need and, in fact, swayed me away from some expensive things.

2) It made 122 ft/lbs and 112 hp on their Mustang Dyno. Not too bad for a D15 with stock exaust. The car ran out of fuel injector capacity at ~5500 rpm or so... I'll be upgrading those, re-doing the exaust, and getting the Greddy ignition harness and getting it re-tuned later.

3) It is burning oil for sure and it's getting worse. It's NOT the turbo, I checked everything they told me to and it's fine. They also gave me some good advice on re-locating my oil pressure line, which I did when I got home.

4) My return line connection to the oil pan has a slow leak. I'll be welding this instead of bolting it this week.

So... I just need to fix the oil burning, buy the aforementioned parts... and go back for another tune... I'm hoping to see 140 - 150 HP on their dyno and I'll be good to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I figured your problem was oil related and not fuel like you mentioned. Takes a pretty damn good amount of fuel to get it to smoke like you mentioned. So much that you would feel it in the driveability.

Those numbers are low, very low... but with oil in the chamber, its to be expected. Fix those problems like you said you would and tune for 7psi or so and you should be very pleased with the results.

 

One more thought on oil burning... my return line is mounted pretty low. I am going to have someone weld up the old mounting holes and re-mount it higher.

This could be the issue, or at least part of it... for some reason I was thinking I had to mount it low -- but it is the opposite. So it is getting re-mounted high on the pan tomorrow... I'll post back about that issue.

If that fixes it I'll have the injectors, exaust, and new tuning very soon (a few weeks) and will post the re-tuned dyno figures at that time. If that doesn't fix it then I'll have to tear into the motor first and it'll be down for a month or so before a new tune.