http://www.nasaproracing.com/r...s.pdf

After two years on my soapbox, I finally feel I’ve been heard. The new rule set for Honda Challenge now has a home for engine-swap cars to race competitively with stock engines in H2. This will put more affordable car and engine combinations right along side Honda’s legendary Integra Type-R running H2 as “restricted prep”.

This is good for the racing, good for the series and good for Honda fans everywhere. Anyone who says different is just itching for a fight…

Thawley – H2/E1 in 2007

 

I applaud NASA and all the directors who worked very hard to get the new rules written. I'm glad there is now a more affordable class for hybrids to race, I just wish they would have done it 3 years ago when I was racing my B16a in H1...

 

not that it matters, but, my beastly engine is now speced out of NASA, again. I hadn't planned on racing until 2008 anyway, maybe the rules will change again by then.

The rules mention the OEM steering rack is required..does that mean you can't run the OEM rack with the Quaife pinion/rack?

 

So, basically all the non K series H1 cars don't have to run with K series cars right? OMG, this is perfect! I was planning on running a B16B in H1 at a min of 2100 pounds. Only difference now is I'm going to have to be at 2400 pounds. Thanks Thawley! BTW, I've been looking forward to running with you and your B20 EF!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DavidR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not that it matters, but, my beastly engine is now speced out of NASA, again.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What engine is that? Probably still fits in H1 if it was legal there before...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The rules mention the OEM steering rack is required..does that mean you can't run the OEM rack with the Quaife pinion/rack?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The rules say "Any OEM Honda/Acura steering rack may be used but must attach to the vehicle without modification". Seems pretty clear to me.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kouki-EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, basically all the non K series H1 cars don't have to run with K series cars right?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not exactly. H1 cars allow a built engine, which the new LPV H2 rules do not. If you're gonna be in H2 with a swap, its still a pretty stock engine.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was planning on running a B16B in H1 at a min of 2100 pounds. Only difference now is I'm going to have to be at 2400 pounds. Thanks Thawley! BTW, I've been looking forward to running with you and your B20 EF! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, maybe now H2 will actually be a class on the West Coast. Spread the word. Bring friends.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not exactly. H1 cars allow a built engine, which the new LPV H2 rules do not. If you're gonna be in H2 with a swap, its still a pretty stock engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Right, but the only reason I would have built my engine was because I had to run with K series guys. I was planning on running my first season with my stock engine, then building or going K series.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, maybe now H2 will actually be a class on the West Coast. Spread the word. Bring friends.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My friends suck, they might come and watch if a car oversteers a lot.

 

max wheel width is still only 7" in H5-H2? those uber cool 949Racing 6UL 15x8 that just came about wouldn't be allowed in H4 then...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What engine is that? Probably still fits in H1 if it was legal there before...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It was only legal in HU before. I have forged pistons and aftermarket rods, along with a fully ported head and intake manifold, and non-oem cams.

 

Is it just me, or does it seem like 2700 pounds is a lot of weight for an H22? I always thought my B16B would outrun an H22 car, even though it has more torque.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DavidR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It was only legal in HU before. I have forged pistons and aftermarket rods, along with a fully ported head and intake manifold, and non-oem cams. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Its still nasa legal, just in a different class, PT

 

why remove HU?

I like how they added weight to the H4 integras.

 

i wonder why the b16b is 150lbs more than the regular b16. both motors make similar power and torque, obviously the b16b makes slightly more, but is it worth the extra 150lbs?

Thawley.. looks like we might have some B20B EF vs. B16 EG fun.

 

ooh, this sounds good. now, where did i put that b16 block.....

 

can't wait to roll the incoming swapped hatches

on a serious note...I'm very happy this rule finally went thru! More H2 cars! Now if I can just start making more races.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Downey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wonder why the b16b is 150lbs more than the regular b16. both motors make similar power and torque, obviously the b16b makes slightly more, but is it worth the extra 150lbs?

.</TD></TR></TABLE>

b16b is a destroked b18c5 rated at 185 and 120

b16a has a 7mm shorter deck height and terrible cams and intake mani and is rated at 160 and 118

those aren't similar hp numbers almost 15% difference

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DavidR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not that it matters, but, my beastly engine is now speced out of NASA, again. I hadn't planned on racing until 2008 anyway, maybe the rules will change again by then. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not that it matters to me to much but since HC is not very strong in the midwest. But I would be in the same boat as now my motor would be deemed illegal.

What was the reason for removing the HU class?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedheadRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What was the reason for removing the HU class?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because they created a class for YOU and you never showed up... That's just my guess. But out of all the cars and all the people NASA tried you accommodate with HU NONE of them showed up all year.

It's your fault.

You showed how little you cared about running with the rest of the Hondas in HC and NASA rightfully assumed that none of you really cared enough for them to justify the class. So now you get to run in PT or SU. You still have a class. You just don't get to run with us.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedheadRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not that it matters to me to much but since HC is not very strong in the midwest. But I would be in the same boat as now my motor would be deemed illegal.

What was the reason for removing the HU class?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, this after I saw an article about some NSX in GRM planning to run HU. Now that we're finally getting CLOSE tracks here in TX, racing is coming more attractive to me since I won't have to leave the state. Given that NASATX will hopefully pick up on these new tracks and offer variety (we've had only two tracks in TX until just this year). Oh well, I may never race if this motor isn't legel, no way I'm tossing this much $... I'll be happy with DEs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kouki-EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it just me, or does it seem like 2700 pounds is a lot of weight for an H22? I always thought my B16B would outrun an H22 car, even though it has more torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep, the H22 got the shaft on this whole deal. Especially on the 100% USDM part. The JDM H22 motor (200HP,161TQ) costs less than a grand, so it's cheaper to run junkyard JDM motors (think under 50,000 miles) than to rebuild a USDM H22 (200 HP, 158TQ) motor.

I guess I'm headed to PT now

 

Thawley, Let me ask you or any one else on the rules committee since you seem to be the expert on LPV as I weigh my options.

Last year I ran a JDM Type R bottom end with Arp fastners. I ran a Stock B16 (PR3) Head (milled) with ITR Dual valve springs, B16 Distributor OBD0 harness, Type R Manifold and Throttle Body, and CTR Cams. Is this a built motor or does this qualify as LPV? I guess I would have to add 165lbs of Lead to run H2. I was at 179HP on the Nationals Dyno.

My other options is to add new cams & valve springs. port & polish the head & Get a better Intake manifold, drop another 85lbs and stay in H1.

Hmmm, What to do?

 

This is definitely interesting news. I'd actually consider throwing a swap in my EF and going to H2 instead of selling it, but I want to run SCCA as well. Now that the Type-R will be eligible for both SCCA ITR and HC H2, that seems like a better option, even if it takes me a couple years to actually pull the trigger.

Good work Thawley, I'm all for anything to make the fields larger!

 

This is good indeed. Now there will be a place for 96-00 Civic DX's to race, without having deal with the crap *** d16y7 and without having to drop major money on an H1 effort. I wonder how this will effect the number of H4 cars though?

It will be interesting to see how a built up d16 (cam, shaved head, intake mani) will do against a b16 with 250lbs added on. This is what HC should have been from the start. Good job of soapboxing Thawley!

 

Wow Great Great job everyone envoled thanks a million for making it ten times easier for me to go racing

I'm at work so cannot give the rules a through reading yet so could you guys answer a few quick questions please.

Does H2 have the same body preparation rules as H1 or the same as H4, ex. are lexan windows allowed, carbon hoods, carbon hatches?

Are brakes free like H1? how bout remote reservoir shocks?

and just one more WOW for how excited I am

This is going to save me thousands and make my car more reliable I dont think it gets any better than this!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Because they created a class for YOU and you never showed up... That's just my guess. But out of all the cars and all the people NASA tried you accommodate with HU NONE of them showed up all year.

It's your fault.

You showed how little you cared about running with the rest of the Hondas in HC and NASA rightfully assumed that none of you really cared enough for them to justify the class. So now you get to run in PT or SU. You still have a class. You just don't get to run with us. </TD></TR></TABLE>


I kind of agree with your point, but you do have to admit that there is more support for HC on the east and west coasts. There were a total of 7 races with NASA midwest and only two of them were under a 3 hr drive.

Also do you think that 1 year is enough time to have it catch on? When the HC first started it was not like it was setting attendance records. It took a little bit for it to gain momentum. Hell it took you 2 years to get what you wanted done.

It took me this year of racing to get the car sorted out to where I feel that it would be competitive. I was planing on running some HC races this year but it looks like it will not be happening unless I run with the S2K that I just picked up.

Just my thoughts.

 

Since this is all so new I guess we may have to wait a bit for clarification. But if I run my old H3 Integra in H2, it would be treated like any limited prep hybrid. Correct? So I could run an OEM Type R tranny and Type R (or any) front calipers? Or no?

Thanks,
Chris