Hi i am running a b16b and i know they are pretty extremly worked already from honda. And it is hard to gain any extra power without ruining this unique engine.

The cams are pretty amazing and the cost of getting spec 4 buddyclub cams arent worth the money compared to these cams in the type r.

People say that the idle is pretty rubbish on the hardcore vtec cams like BC spec 5s or skunk stage3s
If i wanted more power i think this would be the way to go. There is hardly anything left to port and polish off the head.

So has anyone got any experience with any of these extreme cams? and any idle vidoes and of the car with the cams performing??? THIS WOULD ALL BE MUCH APPRECIATED

Please help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J1A1H &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hi i am running a b16b and i know they are pretty extremly worked already from honda. And it is hard to gain any extra power without ruining this unique engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you think swapping out the crank/rods for something larger is 'ruining' the engine? If you want more power, pull the crank/rods from an ITR engine, and stuff them in the B16B.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J1A1H &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
People say that the idle is pretty rubbish on the hardcore vtec cams like BC spec 5s or skunk stage3s </TD></TR></TABLE>

Skunk2 Stage 3's actually idle quite well. My father runs the UGR S2-3's, which are a direct copy of the S2S3's, and they idle much better than my Pro2+'s.

The primary lobes on the Skunk2 Stage 3's are actually pretty small compared to that of the BC Spec 4/5's.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J1A1H &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> There is hardly anything left to port and polish off the head.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

?

The port-job on those heads is rather minimal. There is still much room for improvement, especially from a good valve job.

Do some research.

- Derek

 

S2S3: Idle is not an issue! I am not even close to a tuning expert, but made a bin in Crome (idle set at 850) and the engine idles perfectly since the 1st startup!

 

well i have done a lot of research. But never had first hand experiece with these cams. I want an extreme vtec cross over. Has anyone got or anyone know where i can see some vids with either the buddy club cams or skunk stg3 cams. Dont the skunk2 and bc cams have the same lift on the vtec lobe? obviously different design but the same lift?

Ive done as much research on the b16bs from this site and there isnt too much on them. i know in order to release big power im going to have to run a gd header like a toda. And if i do run some better cams i will run ITBs eventually to maximise flow.

Sorry for my ignorance is this area, but how will taking the crank and rods from an itr help the motor? Isnt the b16b the best revving motor due to its small stroke etc... cant remember the technical term.
Can someone please shed some light for me on this area.

THANKS

 

ttt

 

:enter clean rice's typical speech:

I have a B16b in my car and when it came time for me to increase power, I too looked at cam profiles and wanted a camshaft that would suit my motor best(strong top end, smaller primaries). I was origonally looking at Jun 3's because I have seen them produce numbers time and time again with strong top-ends. It was then when I was introduced to the Rocket Motorsports line of cams which are notorious for the strong top end, and I was reccommended the M22x. They have a larger vtec lobe than the Jun 3, yet idle much like the stock type r cam and have been known to carry power past the 9k mark. To make a long story short, I went with the M22x cams and RM valvetrain, somehow ended up being a dealer for Rocket and here I am. I'm NOT trying to push the product on you, but I HONESTLY feel like the M22x cam fits the B16b motor to an absolute T. Assuming you have a good header like the Toda, add a short ram intake with a v-stack and tuned, and your acceleration is gonna go through the roof. Make sure you have the propper valvetrain to keep up with the rpm's though, your tach is gonna be passing the 9 mark many many times. But in all honesty, the Jun 3/S2S2/Blox B/and the M22x are all an awesome cam, the M22x being the biggest. Feel free to ask more questions, I love my little B16

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-Rob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So you think swapping out the crank/rods for something larger is 'ruining' the engine? If you want more power, pull the crank/rods from an ITR engine, and stuff them in the B16B.

- Derek</TD></TR></TABLE>

YES, YES, YES.... it turns it into a ITR swap... if he wanted that he would have bought one...

i have a B16B also...you wanna know what? I SOLD MY ITR SWAP FOR THIS ONE...

 

exactly! i bought this engine for a reason.
Can you give me the specs on those M22x cams? they sound just like what i need. An extreme vtec lobe but milder lobe for idleing.
What type of valvetrain would you reccomend? Something like a full buddyclub valvetrain apart from cams as i would use the m22x???
By the way, what are you revving too? 10000?

Thanks for your help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFsSuck &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

YES, YES, YES.... it turns it into a ITR swap... if he wanted that he would have bought one...

i have a B16B also...you wanna know what? I SOLD MY ITR SWAP FOR THIS ONE...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you sold an engine with alot more power potential.

Smart move.

And your reasoning to go with the B16B over the B18C was what? It's m@d tiite rod:stroke ratio?

As far as I'm concerned, you're just another ricer/newb.

- Derek

 

anyway back to my prob. B18s are very expensive here and so are b16bs but i was able to find one for a reasonable price.
So what are the specs on those m22x cams???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-Rob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So you sold an engine with alot more power potential.

Smart move.

And your reasoning to go with the B16B over the B18C was what? It's m@d tiite rod:stroke ratio?

As far as I'm concerned, you're just another ricer/newb.

- Derek</TD></TR></TABLE>

ricer/newb? far from it...been doing this for years...i turbocharged my first Honda when i was your age (its in your profile), and that was like 4years ago...

thats fine i really dont give a **** what you think... the point is what i think, since its MY motor... and yes it has to do with the mad tyte RS ratio... my B18C-R didnt liked to be reved past ~8400 rpms, i could feel it, my LSVTEC back in the day didnt like anything past ~8000rpms... my B16B on the other hand will ****** bury the tach to 8700rpms without hesitation, BUT isnt currently making power past ~8400rpms...
i feel that this motor definitely has the potential to make power and pull to atleast 9500rpms without hesitation...it just doesnt have the cam to do it....

which brings us fully back on topic....

M22: intake duration 284 lift 12.1 exhaust duration 284 lift 12.1

thats off the RocketMotorsports website http://www.m24x.com

i would really love to get ahold of some M22x's for my motor, but i cant afford them at the moment...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J1A1H &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So what are the specs on those m22x cams???</TD></TR></TABLE>

They are 284/12.1 on both sides, intake and exhaust. I would recommend doing the new RM SL series valvetrain with them, but Supertech or the new Pro series from S2 would also work. Yeah my tack has seen 10k several times, but just when I was goofin around. I shift at 9.5.

:edit: EF got the specs already ^^

 

ahh you have bounced 10k? how did it feel? was it making power up around there, or was it falling off?....i bet my motor sounds SICK at ~10k


whats different/new about the RM SL series valvetrain?

 

The RM sl valve train seems quite cheap compared to a buddy club valve train or something like that.

Also 12.1 on both intake and exhaust..hmmm... isnt the buddyclub and skunk2 stg2 higher with 12.3??? And people say that this cam has a higher lift?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFsSuck &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
whats different/new about the RM SL series valvetrain?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Better material, made in the U.S.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J1A1H &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The RM sl valve train seems quite cheap compared to a buddy club valve train or something like that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL. Other way around man, the BC valvetrain I would call absolute **** when compared to the SL series from Rocket.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J1A1H &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also 12.1 on both intake and exhaust..hmmm... isnt the buddyclub and skunk2 stg2 higher with 12.3??? And people say that this cam has a higher lift?</TD></TR></TABLE>

"Advretised specs." When you measure and degree them, turns out that they are a bit different from what the company states them as being.

 

so the m22x cams actually have a higher lift? and although they are cheaper, they are better quality?
If they are why dont more people buy them?

 

selling an ITR for a b16b? whoooooo, im gonna suppress my laughs, because this isnt the place. BUT, i would say go for the M22x's or some sk2 stg2's, both great cams. Rocket Motorsports is a great company that have great prices. The have great customer service and Rocket is one cool dude. You cant go wrong with either cam or either company...good luck.

 

well, what is the most extreme cam with a gd idle???

 

M22x/S2S3/Jun 4

 

thats the best part about VTEC motors....you can run a crazy *** cam for your top end and still have a reasonable bottom end with decent idle....

my B18C-R and B16B feel the same...... SLOW...

 

Buddy Club 5 cams are great. They have large primaries on the exhaust cam, but mild primaries on the intake cam, so your IACV is not overwhelmed and a stock idle is easily achieved.

Old vid from when I was running BC'5s

http://www.itrspec.com/VIDS/ITR/BC5Dyno.wmv

 

thats very imppressive. That sound is great and its nice having the 2l torque there. What compression do you think i would have to run in order to run those bc5 cams? buddyclub 5 and sk2 stg3 cams are more aggressive than the m22x cams arent they?
Also 92 type r what valve train were you running to take it up to those kind of revs... and would you always takeit that high on the track? and is it making power up there?

 

I don't know what type of fuel you have at the pump, but we have successfully ran BC5's on 12:1-13.5:1 motors, all tuned on 92 octane.

Peak power held from 8100-8700 flat, then fell gradually, revv limiter was 9500. Peak power will occur later in the revv range on a B16B due to the stroke.

I am running Supertech valves, valvesprings and retainers.

 

My Toda C's idles rock steady @ 1000rpm.

 

92 type r.. thats pretty impressive from the bc5. I am starting to lean that way now.... is the quality of supertech much better than buddyclub for the valvetrain??? Also what price are you looking at for a complete valvetrain from supertech minus the cams???