A turbo or supercharger system is around $5-7K to do it right. I'm a little doubtful about the reliability of either of these on track. Plus, for the car's character and use, it's more appropriate for NA.

I'm reading up on the threads here about what it would take to do it right. Something along the lines of an H23 crank, aftermarket rods, Type S pistons, cams, headwork, Euro Type R IM, and $$$$. Something that can run to 8500rpm or so (on 91 octane) and last.

The cheapest way is to buy an engine already built, but that makes me real nervous - how do I know it was built right, or has the parts the owner says it has? That's ripe for deception. Still, it would save money in the long run - if it's what they say it is. With the H22 as old as it is now, there's got to be some built engines out there being sold.

So... just testing the waters, anyone have a built ODB1 H22 for sale?

 

Just can't stop tinkering, can you?

For what you are using the car for, it almost seems like the powerband of the SC would be kinda ideal, no? Granted that adapting the JRSC kit might be difficult given the space constraints you may have.

Most of the hardcore NA H22 builds I've seen get pretty expensive rather quickly, with a resulting WHP number that usually still puts them somewhere below the that of the bolt-on JRSC kit. There are definitely some respectable NA H22's floating around here and elsewhere, but I guess the I've just never been able to justify the price/performance ratio, primarily because of my inexperience with any internal engine building ($$labor$$)

 

^^I think you have a pretty gross misconception of what "hardcore" engine builds consist of...

If you spend your money in the right places, h22s make great power. And don't forget that a 250whp NA h22 would absolutely spank a 300whp boosted one in a straight line, on the track it would be an even grosser difference.

Pick up your import tuner, and find the red turbo rsx, 400whp blah blah blah, my brother absolutely SMOKED his *** around the track at VIR with a 190whp NA civic at GT Live.

Not to mention that boost messes up classes and all in racing....

Now, kb, if you are simply looking for a pre-built engine, then post in the WTB thread.

If you want my advice on what you should do, I don't think you should buy anyone else's build. I for one don't trust anyone to build a motor for me.

I would say this setup would be a lot simpler and yield good results. Cams, a nice header, a euro r intake manifold, a 3" intake pipe and a bpi flowstack. Get that tuned on hondata or crome and dependent on your parts choices you can make upwards of 220whp.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm reading up on the threads here about what it would take to do it right. Something along the lines of an H23 crank, aftermarket rods, Type S pistons, cams, headwork, Euro Type R IM, and $$$$. Something that can run to 8500rpm or so (on 91 octane) and last.</TD></TR></TABLE>

NA for the win.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not to mention that boost messes up classes and all in racing....

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you looked at his car? You think it's easily "classified" as is?

 

Yeah I'm not concerned with classifications. The only "racing" I do is autocross and HPDE.

 

what FD, and diff are you using. Don't over look them, you can gain as much as 3 sec on most race tracks with just a good FD and LSD.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what FD, and diff are you using. Don't over look them, you can gain as much as 3 sec on most race tracks with just a good FD and LSD.</TD></TR></TABLE>

He's rolling on 13" wheels. He has the equivilant of a 4.7 or higher final drive depending on tires. I bet he could not exceed 130 mph as he is now. Not too sure you'd want to either without any aero. If his engine is one of the older OBD1 H22s then he probably has the M2F4 also which is about as low as the OEM gearsets get.

He's also got a clutch, Al FW and a Quaife.

I think it's time for tires and more power.

Pirate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by red92s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Have you looked at his car? You think it's easily "classified" as is?</TD></TR></TABLE>

either way boost is still doo doo for turnable fwd hondas

 

Yup, 13" wheels. FD is 4.27, and yes, top speed is gear limited to right around 130. Aero drag limits it to nearly the same speed, so changing gears won't help top speed. Gearing BTW was perfect for the course.

Engine is 95 OBD1 H22A1, mods are intake, header, aluminum flywheel, and Quaife. ECU is a stock P13, though I have a P72 waiting "for later."

Tires are coming up soon, and I'm checking all the options. There's a fair chance I'll have to go to 15s for the street, keeping the 13s with sticky rubber for track events.


Modified by kb58 at 12:15 PM 11/21/2006

 

woops i forgot this car isnt an fwd honda....lol....

haha still, all motor is great on the track... unless you're gonna design a quick-spooling, high revving engine, go NA

 

^^I made a similar mistake before. LOL! I talked about the engine under the hood.
I think even 230 WHP would rip in that Mini, but nothing wrong with a 250+ WHP H24. I'm guessing you still wanna run on pump gas too right?

 

yup, mid-engine. I'm pretty wary of a turbo or SC on track. I keep seeing threads here of people's engine's blowing up. Even the Porsche 944 Turbo beast that was at the track was having all sorts of problems. Yeah it was faster than me - when it ran right, but it only did a few laps and left early.

 

Yes, definitely 91 octane pump gas (that's all we get here in SoCal). I don't want to bother with race gas.

 

What's your budget and whp goals? I'm pretty sure the H22 gurus on here can cook something up for you.

 

If I cut corners, I'll spend twice as much building a replacement. I rather take my time and do it right - once.

I think I probably have the list already: H23 crank, aftermarket rods, Type S pistons, cams, headwork, valve springs, Euro Type R IM. As far as rpm goes, I'd worry about &gt;8500 (no data, just a feeling.) If I'm wrong, please let me know.

What I don't know is if all the above parts are needed for reliability and decent gains. How much does headwork add, I don't know. Cams, in a 10-11CR engine? I don't know. Rods add safety, so they probably stay, unless someone knows for a fact that stock Honda rods are good enough.

I want to do it right, but don't want to throw money into stuff that has little value. Headwork costs a fortune, but is it really going to help on a &lt;8500 engine running near stock compression (or whatever I can run on 91 oct.)

I have a lot of questions and a lot of reading to do. I know there's some good threads in the FAQ here.

 

you can spin that crank to 8500 rpms but wont last long.
8000rpm is more like it with aftermarket rods. 7000rpms with h23/f22 rods
some have taken factory parts to 7500rpms safely but not daily

 

Okay, point taken. It makes it all the more amazing to me that the Honda S2000 goes to, what, 9400?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay, point taken. It makes it all the more amazing to me that the Honda S2000 goes to, what, 9400?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can already hear the gears turning in your mind: S2k swap!

 

Can't be that hard to make an adapter plate...

 

That's for the F20C though, the new F22C has a lower red line. More in the 8k range if I'm not mistaken. But you gotta remember the H23 crank's counterwights are smaller than an H22's for one thing...unless you find an Accord Wagon H23A (that also has 55mm mains over the H22A1 + beefy VTEC counter weights).


Modified by Televator at 3:28 PM 11/21/2006


Modified by Televator at 3:35 PM 11/21/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would say this setup would be a lot simpler and yield good results. Cams, a nice header, a euro r intake manifold, a 3" intake pipe and a bpi flowstack. Get that tuned on hondata or crome and dependent on your parts choices you can make upwards of 220whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you interested in doing some staged construction I think this setup would be pretty nice. Everything Matt mentions can be swaped to a more beefed up block.

This way you spend your change on things that you will see a gain from, and yet will still not be waisted if and/or when you decide to go full build. Also it would give you time to build up your block and still have more power to play with on the side.

Good luck, and either way you'll be happy with the results.

 

Speaking of the Euro R intake, where are people getting them from these days?

 

Blacktrax vice Euro R IMO......then you wont have to worry about the headache that the mani will give you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Speaking of the Euro R intake, where are people getting them from these days?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmotors has some for a good *** price. As far as your list of parts, IMO if you're wanting to revv the car pass 8,000rpm I would get more aggressive cams than the Type-S. I'm running Euro-R cams right now and I start to lose power after 8000, which is why my revv is limited at 8200 and I'm looking to get new cams next year. I don't think there's any problems revving the H22 to 9000 as a daily driver as long as it's built right. A good port&polish job should net you around 10-13whp. Goodluck with your research. Can't wait to see what's next for the K.