I have an LSvtec setup and when I'm at the dyno, Shawn from Church Automotives is saying that it's "pinging" What he said he was trying to do was to take out timing. Anyone can explain what's going on?

 

are your plugs in good condition? and the fuel your running is correct?

 

preignition......the fuel is starting to ignite before the spark plug fires. .............How is this different from detonation?

 

try to run a higher octane fuel. Change your plugs to something better like Denso Iridiums.

 

http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm

 

Sometime tells me if he has shawn from church auto. doing the tuning he needs less trouble shooting and more explanation for his own knowledge. Pinging = denotation or pre-ignition. Could be bad gas, a shitty ecu tune, generally its means you're running too lean or too much timing, blah blah blah blah.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by no2unenolife &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are your plugs in good condition? and the fuel your running is correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well thing is i do have bad plugs.. and wires for that matter. heard pinging, he took it to 7500 and i spun a rod bearing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B20inDCinLBC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well thing is i do have bad plugs.. and wires for that matter. heard pinging, he took it to 7500 and i spun a rod bearing</TD></TR></TABLE>


Doh, we were all wrong....the pinging was the rod bearing.

 

no no.. u guys are probably on the right track. i had pinging before...and then the rod bearings did a rattling noise

 

can anyone explain what causes a noise of pinging?

ohh, and another thing, i know this is hillarious but while it was on the dyno, it was only pushing out 127 horsies with 118 torque.

 

Pinging is caused by the fuel in the combustion chamber exploding previous to the piston being at the top of the stroke. Thus, the engine is trying to push the piston up and the fuel/pressure in the cylinder is trying to push it down.....thus the pinging occurs. This can occur because the temps in the combustion chamber are too high and the fuel pre-ignites, because you added too much timing and the spark plug fired too soon, because you were running too lean (lean = faster ignition of the fuel), you were running too low of an octane (octane is resistance to ignition, since the integra ignites it fuel 16*s before TDC, if the fuel doesnt have enough resistance to ignition, it will explode before the piston reaches TDC). Its also possible to get bad fuel and a slew of other issues.

However, it could also be the bearing. Generally it takes a little while to "spin" a bearing, you might hear a pinging previously to actually spinning the bearing because when the bearing starts to spin, the tabs (which normally keep it from spinning) catch on the rod and make a pinging noise. Basically the tab on the rod passes the notch on the rod (where its suppose to be) and it pings as it hits. Eventually it does that enough until the tab gets bent inward (or over backwards) causing the bearing to become thicker then it should be and it grinds into the crank (ie, the bearing is thicker and there is no extra room bewteen the crank and the hole in the rod....thus it grinds away). Thus, the pinging is most likely the tabs on the bearings failing and then you heard the "rattling" noise. Possibly not, but possibly so.

 

good sh#t. would u be able to explain the amount of power i'm throwing out?

B18a
Gsr crank
gsr rods
ctr pistons
Stock b16 head, p28 chipped
stock headers, piping, cat, and muffler

 

a little clarification.. its not that the spark plug fires before its supposed to, its that the combustion chamber gets so hot, that fuel ignites on its own BEFORE the spark plug fires. hot combustion chamber temps can be caused by too much timing advance, or not enough fuel.

also, its likely that the pinging most likely caused (or helped at least) the rod bearing to spin, not that they are the same thing. when the engine pings, or "detonates", its working against istelf and sending the shock forces thru the piston, down the rod, and to the crank. so essenstially, when you "ping", those forces are hammering down on your crank and rod bearings.

when you spin a bearing, you get a "rod knock" which is a different noise all together.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B18a
Gsr crank
gsr rods
ctr pistons
Stock b16 head, p28 chipped
stock headers, piping, cat, and muffler</TD></TR></TABLE>

your problem is most likely the CTR pistons, which give you very high compression in a 1.8L block. much too high for california 91 octane. higher compression causes higher combustion temps, which can cause pinging if you aren't running a modified timing curve and/or giving it extra fuel to keep the temps down.

I'd look into replacing the ctr pistons with ITR's, or B16a pistons at the most, if you want to run on pump gas.

and for pete's sake, get some decent plugs and wires on there. make sure you have an adequate fuel system too, or at least an adjustable FPR.

Do it right the first time....er. at least do it right the 2nd time.

 

Also, I forgot to add the part about compression. Pressure makes fuel more explosive (gas by itself is flamable, not explosive), its the pressure that makes it explosive. Thus, a higher compression ratio causes the same amount of fuel to be more explosive and yeild more power. However, it also causes it to become more easily ignitable, thus too high of compression can cause the fuel to explode too easily. Thus, you have to up the octane fuel (octane = resistance to explosion) to compensate for that. Ofcourse you can also run richer to prevent it as well. I try not to pick #s because I've seen some really nice setups make low hp #s and really crappy setups make unbelieve #s.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike-y &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do it right the first time....er. at least do it right the 2nd time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

hehe, i guess so. thanks

 

not high enough octane will cause it. or timing is too far advanced. or like was said , in a boosted car , too lean will cause fuel to preignite.

 

will 91 do?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike-y &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a little clarification.. its not that the spark plug fires before its supposed to, its that the combustion chamber gets so hot, that fuel ignites on its own BEFORE the spark plug fires. hot combustion chamber temps can be caused by too much timing advance, or not enough fuel.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought I had clearly explained that pre-ignition and denotation are different things, even though people commonly think of them as one in the same and commonly misuse the terms. Keep in mind that under WOT, your ignition timing advances to upwards of 30 degrees BTDC. When you tune a car, you generally try to get a your nice flat A/F curve and then add as much timing as you can previous to getting a reading from the knock sensor (you start to get knock and you pull 2 degrees and rock it out). Thus, a bad tune can leave you with too much advanced ignition timing (not just the distributor, but what the ECU is doing) and cause denotation.

 

91 should do fine if your just running LSVTEC. no boost? get on it man , lol. if all you did was strap a B16 head on it , your pushing 10:1 almost. not near a problem to run pump gas obviously. 95 integra is right here , im with him , your car needs to be timed properly. advanced wayy to far if its pinging on 91 , with not even 10:1 CR.

 

OK, I'LL DO THAT. NO BOOST.

 

It could be bad gas or too much timing.

 

could anyone tell me why i might be only pushing out 128 hp with my lsv setup?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B20inDCinLBC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could anyone tell me why i might be only pushing out 128 hp with my lsv setup? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just to double check all this. 128hp with the bearing problem? Knocking? After you rebuilt it? Im lost.

 

Uhm.. before the rod bearing went out, it was being tuned and it only produced 128 hp. When the tunner would take it up to 7000 he said it was pinging and he said he was taking timing out. So for my first run to 7500 rpm, it only did 128 hp

EDIT: First time he ran it, there was no noise at all and it only made 128 hp

 

Shawn is a great tuner, there is more to this scenario......