Alright I’m posting this both on Honda/Scion-tech. I currently own a ’05 scion tc auto. I regret getting my tc in auto to start off with just wanted a new car at the time and wasn’t really into tuning cars. Well it’s come down to the point that I’m sick of the rattles that the dealership cannot fix (stereo, fuse panel, head liner, shade mount, hatch) and decided maybe to look into another car. I haven’t really looked into the 07 tc, hopefully all these things were fixed but here’s what its come down to. I’ve considered the ’07 tc or ’05 civic si.. I’ve always been a Toyota person so I’d hate to ditch the tc but I’ve tried doing the diy fixes, taking it to the dealer, and ya some have helped but its been 2 years of rattles and I’m fed up. Also wanted to take the chance and get a stick car while I’m still young haha.

Scion tc:
Pros: Reliable, decent power (torque), decent mpg, roomy as hell, features are bang for the buck deal.
Cons: Rattles (hopefully you 07 owners can prove me wrong), Chick car (I’m gona get flamed for this one lol), interior scratches easily, seats front and back aren’t comfortable.

Civic Si: (Haven’t really seen it in person so if you ep3 Si owners can help me with this)
Pros: Good mpg, decent power(maybe lacking in torque), roomy hatch, seats look more comfortable, love the simple interior.
Cons: Lacking in torque (maybe), from other impressions of Honda engine/road noise is not at insolated as the tc possibly, not as roomy as the tc (maybe)

I’m really not sure about the Si so any input is appreciated. I don’t race in any form so I really am not power hungry, I just need passing power and to get up steep hills on the toll road. I want a hatch or at least 60/40 seats to fit my snowboard and crap I carry that I’ve been thankful to my tc. I’m possibly considering to hit the tracks so suspension tuning is something in mind but at the same time don’t want a harsh ride cause it is a daily driver and the freeway I take is bumpy as hell. It is my first manual so maybe if anyone’s driven both which is easier to learn and be satisfied with after.

thanks

 

I haven't driven a tC (maybe I should try one out), and haven't been that involved in their scene, so I can only address what you're wondering about the EP.

It does get decent mpg, probably varying the most depending on driving style. If I stay nice to mine, I can get mid-upper 20's in town and a little over 30 in the highway. If I romp on it a lot, it gets worse, of course.

Power is fine for getting around. It'll take hills easily in 5th on the interstate (something I couldn't always say about my old '86 Si). Even though it doesn't have the high-lift cam changeover like the Type-S RSX, it has similar or better torque in the rest of the rev range.

Bonus point of the hatch body style is that headroom in back is great, just as much as in front. It's plenty roomy back there and has no center hump to get in the way of passengers' feet. It accommodates my tubas fine, too.

I think the front seats could be more comfortable on long trips, but I don't feel much discomfort at all when driving less than two or three hours. On one trip, my mom actually fell asleep pretty easily in the back, if that's any indication.

The interior is quite nice, IMO. Everything fits together well, and the textures are nice. Installing an aftermarket stereo is easy enough. The map pockets in the doors are big enough to be usable, and all the little storage cubbyholes are nice to have, too (including the hidden space underneath the sliding center cupholder and the coin pocket in the lower left dash).

As far as passing power is concerned, the reasonable power (torquiest Civic yet when it came out) and the gearing help out a lot. It compared very well to other cars in its class when tested for going from 50 to 70 mph. Hills and higher altitudes aren't much of a problem thanks to the smart ECU and variable cam timing.

Regarding suspension tuning, there's several ways to do it right. Full kits worth looking at, IMO, are the Honda HFP and Mugen Sports suspensions -- OEM build quality, no maintenance needed, and direct fit. You can also do well by simply replacing the dampers & springs. Swaybars are something to think about, too; the front-rear bar balance on the USDM EP is set up for understeer at the limit, while the overseas Type-R (also with different spring/damper tuning, I'm sure) is more neutral & tossable.

For your first manual transmission, nearly any Honda will spoil you for anything else. The gates are clearly defined, the throws aren't too long, and the action is smooth & slick. Most people who have driven the EP have really liked the placement of the shifter on the dash, too. Honda called it "rally inspired", but any purpose-built race car will also have the shift **** high near the steering wheel. It also makes more room for the center floor console and keeps you from banging into a passenger's knee in the higher gears.

 

Some of my pics:

 

In case you missed this thread from earlier this week:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1799413

 

Wow thanks man that was very useful info. I guess now it just comes down to test driving both, if the 07 tC's arent bug free prolly go for an si, are there any known issues that people always complain about ?

 

ever thought of an RSX?

and just a little thought on your honda's lacking torque, hondas compared to any other car manufacterur, may seem to have a lack in torque, but the are geared so precise that they can actually use that power throughout most of the RPM band, in other words they still have alot of available tourqe even at high RPMS

and since when do TC's have a ton of torque?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc5tegk20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and just a little thought on your honda's lacking torque, hondas compared to any other car manufacterur, may seem to have a lack in torque, but the are geared so precise that they can actually use that power throughout most of the RPM band, in other words they still have alot of available tourqe even at high RPMS </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's right -- the gear ratios are excellently spaced. Each upshift lands the tach in the same spot, and right in the good part of the powerband for each motor.

People speak of swapping in the Type-S's 6-speed (and have done so), but I don't think it's a great idea. The EP's 5-speed is already geared short enough, and the low 6800-rpm redline of the K20A3 motor would force more shifts more often with a shorter-ratio 6-speed tranny. Similarly, I wouldn't use the 5-speed tranny with a Type-S or Type-R motor (K20A2, K20A, or the newer K20Z1 or -Z3 engines) since even redline upshifts put the engine below the came changeover.

 

Known issues? The clutch master cylinder has been known to go bad (I've had mine replaced under warranty), and one ephatch.com member talked about the cause being an internal spring that would bind against the casing.

Lowering the car can cause the steering rack to creak, mainly if it's lowered too far on stock struts and/or steps aren't taken to adjust the tie rod angles back to normal.

Um.... that's about it, really. I haven't noticed any unusual rattles in my car, although the driver's sun visor squeaks in hot weather when I swing it down.

Some of us bicker, and there's a few lemons out there, but still, the EP has been doing really well overall. How does it look when one of the largest EP3 forums has no section just for warranty issues & recalls?

 

Toyota's = under powered

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-Money &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Toyota's = under powered</TD></TR></TABLE>

and like the older si is not .... the TC have a solid 2.4 while the older si's have a poor excuse for VTEC and is a 2.0

 

Thanks for the response guys appreciate it. The Si im looking at seems to have the HFP package with the aero kit and the suspension so i dont know if that counts as lowering to cause the creak. I have considered an rsx but i heard insurance is crazy on the type-s.

 

175 a month full coverage on an 06' rsx type-s for me and im 19 with an accident ()

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc5tegk20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">175 a month full coverage on an 06' rsx type-s for me and im 19 with an accident () </TD></TR></TABLE>

i pay $279/month for mine full coverage and i'm 21.

i guess it depends on which state you live in

 

i think they r passing a biLL making insurance companies Look at ur personaL driving record rather than demographics

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by a2_DC5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think they r passing a biLL making insurance companies Look at ur personaL driving record rather than demographics</TD></TR></TABLE>

that can be both good and bad.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bkomi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the response guys appreciate it. The Si im looking at seems to have the HFP package with the aero kit and the suspension so i dont know if that counts as lowering to cause the creak. I have considered an rsx but i heard insurance is crazy on the type-s.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nah, I wouldn't be concerned about a creaking rack in that car. It should be fine.

The HFP kit is quite a deal, actually. The suspension's a good blend of comfort and sportiness, and it got a lot of good reviews from the automotive press. It lowers the car about an inch (maximum practical drop for an EP or RSX is about 1.5") and is roughly halfway between stock and the Mugen suspension in terms of firmness. I wouldn't mess with it for a while.

 

damn im paying close to 350 a month full coverage and im 17 with a ticket and one accident

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM.K20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">17 with a ticket and one accident </TD></TR></TABLE>

thats why ...