if i have an asr subframe brace, 22mm rear sway and adjustable rear camber what scca class would that put me in. i've been reading the dif. rule books but its hard to figure out

 

I believe it would be SM because of the rule about connecting suspension points makes the ASR brace illegal in STS. Kinda lame IMO, but there are a couple of threads around here where it's discussed in greater detail.

 

yeah lame indeed. i haven't brought my car to an event yet and im already bumped up into a class i dont want to be in

oh well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by electron_si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah lame indeed. i haven't brought my car to an event yet and im already bumped up into a class i dont want to be in

oh well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I felt the same way when I showed to my first autocross with the only mod being an intake. Straight up to STS for me.

Really though, just go and have fun. If you decide to gget serious about it, then you start building the car to the rule set you want. Until then, just go fast, have fun, and learn.

 

yeah the things that throw you on SM I mean come on!!! K20 in a 95 civic, its just a stock motor.. . a bit of a joke in the tone.. .

But I do find it a bit rediculous that I can not be in another class that is more HP to weight related. I mean all out Widebody 350-400whp M3s rockin 295/35/18s out back against lil ol me with 225s 210whp and 2150 dry weight. hmmm who's going to win?? ? ?

 

Just run Pax or NFT. The SCCA has their heads up their asses with the rules and classing so just go have fun.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But I do find it a bit rediculous that I can not be in another class that is more HP to weight related. I mean all out Widebody 350-400whp M3s rockin 295/35/18s out back against lil ol me with 225s 210whp and 2150 dry weight. hmmm who's going to win?? ? ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually if you look at the results for Nationals for the past two years a "lil ol" Civic with much less power than you did very well against the M3's. On day one the Civic was only .108 seconds back from the M3's after leading for the 1st two runs.

In 2005 that same Civic was only about 7/10ths from the win.

If you build it right, and can drive, Civic's aren't so slow...

 

7/10 ths is a very long time at the Nationals.

But 285 30 18's fit on Hondas with fender love.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tunes12 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Actually if you look at the results for Nationals for the past two years a "lil ol" Civic with much less power than you did very well against the M3's. On day one the Civic was only .108 seconds back from the M3's after leading for the 1st two runs.

In 2005 that same Civic was only about 7/10ths from the win.

If you build it right, and can drive, Civic's aren't so slow...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know the guy Known as Rodney who did this. I know it is possible. I wasn't really bitching and moaning, just basically putting it out there that their COULD be other classes.. .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dvp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The SCCA has their heads up their asses with the rules and classing</TD></TR></TABLE>
Umm, not if you understand where the ruleset came from and why things are as they are - which you obviously don't.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Umm, not if you understand where the ruleset came from and why things are as they are - which you obviously don't. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah obviously, because only the people that agree, really understand the rules and the how classing is formed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dvp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah obviously, because only the people that agree, really understand the rules and the how classing is formed. </TD></TR></TABLE>
So what is your proposed solution to classing?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So what is your proposed solution to classing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's very simple, you class cars according to how fast they actually are on course. And please don't tell me that is the way it is. Take a look at the times from the past 2-3 years of all the SP classes and tell me everything is A-ok. CSP is where the bottleneck is because they know if they change the class around all the CSP guys will bitch and whine about it. Oh wait, you're in CSP.
The DSP BMW/Lexus change to BSP is a great example of this.

This years top times for SP classes at Nationals....

ASP - 99.825

BSP - 99.567

CSP - 99.414

DSP - 101.539

ESP - 101.229

FSP - 101.953

The other years are very similar. CSP=bottleneck. Yet that is not the only problem. But of course this is just my opinion. And they want to put the E30 BMW M3 in CSP......might as well just erase it from classing altogether.




Modified by dvp at 11:07 PM 10/31/2006


Modified by dvp at 11:08 PM 10/31/2006


Modified by dvp at 11:09 PM 10/31/2006

 

I didn't see any solutions in there. Try again maybe?

I also do not see any attempt to relate to the content of this thread.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I know the guy Known as Rodney who did this. I know it is possible. I wasn't really bitching and moaning, just basically putting it out there that their COULD be other classes.. .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually it was ME driving Rodney's car who did this...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tunes12 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Actually it was ME driving Rodney's car who did this...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Interesting. I baught some parts from him online and I talk to him every now and then. I was under the impression that he was the driver. Oops.. .

good luck with the new project civic and the K swap

 

Unless the subframe brace only goes to two points I think that puts you out of SM as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't see any solutions in there. Try again maybe?

I also do not see any attempt to relate to the content of this thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well of course you don't, not everyone can be a fanboy of the SCCA.
I already added to the thread so don't ask me again to go off topic if you're going to nitpick about me going off topic. Although it really is on topic because the guy wants to run with the SCCA and I'm warning him of the BS that is going on. Yet it's just another opinion and not really a big deal.

Just run Not For Time or Pax. There it is again.


Modified by dvp at 10:17 AM 11/1/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Interesting. I baught some parts from him online and I talk to him every now and then. I was under the impression that he was the driver. Oops.. .

good luck with the new project civic and the K swap </TD></TR></TABLE>

No your right, he is the owner/driver. I co-drive with him.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dvp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well of course you don't, not everyone can be a fanboy of the SCCA.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

But...you offerred a solution...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dvp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's very simple, you class cars according to how fast they actually are on course. And please don't tell me that is the way it is. Take a look at the times from the past 2-3 years of all the SP classes and tell me everything is A-ok. CSP is where the bottleneck is because they know if they change the class around all the CSP guys will bitch and whine about it. Oh wait, you're in CSP.
The DSP BMW/Lexus change to BSP is a great example of this.

This years top times for SP classes at Nationals....

ASP - 99.825

BSP - 99.567

CSP - 99.414

DSP - 101.539

ESP - 101.229

FSP - 101.953

The other years are very similar. CSP=bottleneck. Yet that is not the only problem. But of course this is just my opinion. And they want to put the E30 BMW M3 in CSP......might as well just erase it from classing altogether.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

simple solution to your "problem" with SCCA classing? get it out of your thick skull that the letters correspond with the 'speed' of the class. part of that solution would also include knowing what the fawk you're talking about since all of the SP classes don't run the same course, the same day nor at the same time. finally, understand that different cars respond differently to different courses. nationals this year was on a slippery, sandy surface that had only a very narrow clean line. big, powerful cars (like ASP corvettes) couldn't use their power as they were forced to run the same line a miata would run.

btw, the BMW/Lexus move to BSP and the e30's being moved to CSP is not a done deal.

also btw, the e30 M3 is already in CSP. but then, you knew that because you know the solution to the SCCA's classing 'issues'.

see, bone heads like dvp think they know better with their limited scope and ignorant, idealistic approach to everything. is the SCCA classing method perfect? hell no, and you'll never hear any intelligent SCCA 'fanboi' say that. what they will say is that of all the classing methods out there, the one the SCCA uses is the least problematic.

should cars be classed based on performance metrics? well, answer me this. which example are you going to use to establish those metrics? who is going to buy and build the car and with what money? what about all the other cars in the class? what happens if hoosier releases a new tire size that makes a previously well matched car for the class the new overdog? what if the opposite happens and THE tire size for a car is no longer available, rendering that car an uncompetitive has been? what if a competitor thinks outside the box and finds a better solution for a problem that was limiting a car? once you can intelligently answer all those questions only then will i believe you when you say you have the solutions to the classing problems.

now, as for the ASR brace..... the jury is still out and no verdict has been turned in. Rodney's SM car utilizes this setup and has for the last couple of years. it has been at the top of the pack at national level autocrosses, scrutinized closely, yet still no one has even questioned the setup let alone protested it. SM inherits the same strut bar allowance as ST and SP. the only place i've seen the setup declared illegal is on the interweb. show up and run in ST (or SP if you've got things like a flywheel or something) and have fun.

 

The letter "should" correspond with the speed of the cars and that was the "original" idea with classing. People like solo-x just like to think the letters are there for fun not for speed.
Now you're talking righ out your ***. All the cars do the same courses, they just do them different days. And this year the temperature differences weren't enough between days to make much of a difference. Now if you could get off your lazy *** and look at the last few years of the nationals you'd see the results are very similar. Intresting HUH!
The E30 doesn't have to be a done deal. Just the fact that they are even considering it is fooking silly. And the M3 thing was simply a typo...E30.
Least problematic...LMFAO. If you want to consider doing nothing while several car dominate till a few members point it out then sure it's not "problematic"...lol. No it's just the easiest solution is all. Not by far the best solution. But don't think into it too far, you yourself might find a better solution.

You've got to have better questions than that man. Those are all very easy to solve. If a car is dominate it gets reclassed at the end of the year obviously. If a car becomes outclassed it also gets reclassed....obviously. But the way it currently stands the classing is all wrong in SP so trying to reclass cars as it is wont work.
If the classing was done properly a dominate car could easily move up a class and still be competitive. Now you brought up the point of people having to pay for all these cars...who paid for the BMW E36's and the E30 that have had thousands of dollars put into them to possibly be told they have to buy an M3 motor to be competetive in BSP...if this happens? This is only happening because CSP is the bottleneck.
The way the SCCA initially classes a car is fine but as soon as the car starts to dominate it automaticly needs the lookover for possible reclassing. The BMW E36, E30 and the Lexus IS300 should be going to CSP but because they know these cars have no chance against the CRX, Miata and the Spyder they have to think about moving them all the way up to BSP. BRILLIANT! I'm just speaking my mind here...

It might be too broken to even try to fix.
The RSX is even in CSP. The SCCA needs to start classing without asking or waiting for letters imo. Of course letters should still get the time of day and still be considered.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But...you offerred a solution... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Because I love autocrossing. I was a fanboy myself till I saw all this from a different perspective. A wrong perspective? Not from all the stats I've been looking at from the past Nationals and the classing of some cars.

 

so you're proposing that people build a fast car, but not TOO fast so that they win but not by enough to get reclassed. and if you want to get an easy win, drive slow for a year, get your car reclassed to a slower class, then dominate for a year to get that jacket. yep, there is a solution!

were you at nationals? EVER? your ignorance on the subject is mind boggling.

holy hell!!!! SS must be WAY slower then HS!!!!!!

 

^^^ hahahhaa

when SS is slower then HS .. pigs will fly hahaha