sorry, this is a totally random thought as myself and a friend were talking about this saturday night but:

given the fact that the cost of making one specific camshaft as opposed to another camshaft for the same manufacturer is the same, why does one cost more than the other?

example: a "stage 3" cam will always cost more than the "stage 1" cam. its the same damn piece of material, just tenths of a millimeter differences.

the more i think about it, the more hilarious it gets.

edit: first site i went to lists blox hsl as 20 dollars more then blox b. 329 to 349

 

stage 3 is for ballers. so it comes at higher price

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Runnerdown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stage 3 is for ballers. so it comes at higher price </TD></TR></TABLE>

i mean, after some stiff long islands, thats the best we could come up with too man. im going to check some more sites now.

 

The cam may be made by the same manufacturer, with the same material but, what you're paying for is the difference in horsepower a Stage 3 cam will make over a Stage 1 cam. (Supposedly)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mRvYbEs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The cam may be made by the same manufacturer, with the same material but, what you're paying for is the difference in horsepower a Stage 3 cam will make over a Stage 1 cam. (Supposedly)</TD></TR></TABLE>

give me 1 reason why that makes any sense what so ever. im not knocking you or flaming you im just trying to get you to think like i am thinking right now.

 

SK2-305050140 Skunk2 Stage 1 B Series Cams $668.85
SK2-305050145 Skunk2 Stage 2 B Series Cams $713.16
SK2-305050150 Skunk2 Stage 3 B Series Cams $713.16

SK2-305050100 Skunk2 Stage 1 D16Z Cam $418.37
SK2-305050105 Skunk2 Stage 2 D16Z Cam $436.27

Buddy Club 3+ $550
Buddy Club 4 $575
Buddy Club 5 $615

im not comparing cams from different "series" or anything. just one "stage" over another.

why is the aftermarket parts industry turning into gran turismo 4?

 

The only reason I can come up with is that a stage 3 cam will take more r&d to create than a stage 1. Your paying for the extra development time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Furyof4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only reason I can come up with is that a stage 3 cam will take more r&d to create than a stage 1. Your paying for the extra development time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that w ould make sense if you compared something like a "pro series" camshaft to a "original stage 2" camshaft. a stage 3 isnt an IMPROVEMENT over a stage 2, just a different application. i.e., put those cams in a stock b16a and the stage 2 is actually going to make a faster car. make sense?


i keep using skunk2 as an example, and im not biased or whatever. all the manufacturers are guilty of it.

 

might have to think about it from an economical point of view, they might be able to sell more of the smaller cams so they can sell them a a lower price. im sure this has to do with set up time in machining etc...

 

Well, you have to take R&D into consideration when you determine a specific price. After R&D comes marketing with dyno graphs showing how much more power Stage 3 makes over Stage 1. The whole point is the consumer pays the price for the research that's already put into these cams. If we all knew how to change the specs of a Stage 1 cam to get the power a Stage 3 cam put out (varying 5whp-20whp) we'd all buy the cheaper cam

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mRvYbEs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, you have to take R&D into consideration when you determine a specific price. After R&D comes marketing with dyno graphs showing how much more power Stage 1 makes over Stage 3. The whole point is the consumer pays the price for the research that's already put into these cams. If we all knew how to change the specs of a Stage 1 cam to get the power a Stage 3 cam put out (varying 5whp-20whp) we'd all buy the cheaper cam</TD></TR></TABLE>

if stage 1 and stage 3 come out at the same time, and stage 3 is just "more lift more duration" albeit, a calculated "more lift/duration" then you can throw the R&D theory out of the window.

if youre starting from scratch, why would a stage 3 take more time to develop than a stage 1? it woudlnt. think about it.

i just dont think there is a singe JUSTIFIABLE answer as to why one would cost more than the other.

 

havent you even been to costco or some bulk warehouse store? if they make more of the smaller cams wich more people buy then they can sell them for less per cam set. there are some cams out there that cost the same for most of the grinds... crower comes to mind...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JCushing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">havent you even been to costco or some bulk warehouse store? if they make more of the smaller cams wich more people buy then they can sell them for less per cam set. there are some cams out there that cost the same for most of the grinds... crower comes to mind...</TD></TR></TABLE>

some companies do, some dont. i understand what youre saying about the bulk theory.

but, its not valid considering the introductory pricing is spaced out the way i am describing. at that point, they havent sold a single cam. they dont introduce them all at 500 bucks, then take the top seller and drop it down to 350 becuase they are selling more. and there is no justifiable reason that, if priced equally, one would sell more than the other. think about it.

thats like saying "these are cheaper becuase most people want less hp"

it doesnt make sense.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xDEFTONESx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if stage 1 and stage 3 come out at the same time, and stage 3 is just "more lift more duration" albeit, a calculated "more lift/duration" then you can throw the R&D theory out of the window.

if youre starting from scratch, why would a stage 3 take more time to develop than a stage 1? it woudlnt. think about it.

i just dont think there is a singe JUSTIFIABLE answer as to why one would cost more than the other. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's not about the time it takes to produce. It's actually the results the cam yields. You're paying more $$$ because you're supposed to make more power. That's my point

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xDEFTONESx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

some companies do, some dont. i understand what youre saying about the bulk theory.

but, its not valid considering the introductory pricing is spaced out the way i am describing. at that point, they havent sold a single cam. they dont introduce them all at 500 bucks, then take the top seller and drop it down to 350 becuase they are selling more. and there is no justifiable reason that, if priced equally, one would sell more than the other. think about it.

thats like saying "these are cheaper becuase most people want less hp"

it doesnt make sense. </TD></TR></TABLE>
This is called marketing. Most people think that because 1 item is more expensive than another that means it's better. That's not always the case. ex. Blox B vs Jun III. From what I've seen, both cams yield almost the same power in "SIMLAR" 2L motors.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mRvYbEs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's not about the time it takes to produce. It's actually the results the cam yields. You're paying more $$$ because you're supposed to make more power. That's my point</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is all wrong. If you know anything about economics its all supply and demand. The equilibrium for the better cams is higher. So they cost more. There will be a higher demand for the "better" cams ( stage III etc. ) so the demand curve shifts to the right, bringing the equilibrium up.

 

It's quantity. If I have 1000 of one piston made amd 300 of another, I will get a better price on the 1000 lot. Plus the more radical the cam the more R&D, ramp rates, rocker wear, optimum cam timing, etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HoUTX98GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is all wrong. If you know anything about economics its all supply and demand. The equilibrium for the better cams is higher. So they cost more. There will be a higher demand for the "better" cams ( stage III etc. ) so the demand curve shifts to the right, bringing the equilibrium up.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Am I not saying the same thing you are. The demand to make more power is greater and manufacturers already know this. So yes the better cams will cost more (stage 3)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mRvYbEs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Am I not saying the same thing you are. The demand to make more power is greater and manufacturers already know this. So yes the better cams will cost more (stage 3)</TD></TR></TABLE>

That made no rational sense whatsoever. You basically said what i said without any logic behind it.

As i said before the demand for better cams (more power) is there. And like the post before you says, there may be less supply of the "better" cams. The supply curve will shift to the left, and the demand curve will shift to the right. This makes the equilibrium (price) move up. This is basic economics and this is ABSOLUTELY the reason the cams are more expensive.

And it doesnt necessarily have anything to do with marketing. Im a marketing major and have taken a lot of economics classes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's quantity. If I have 1000 of one piston made amd 300 of another, I will get a better price on the 1000 lot. Plus the more radical the cam the more R&D, ramp rates, rocker wear, optimum cam timing, etc. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i REFUSE to believe that, starting from scratch, a stage 1 takes a SIGNIFICANTLY less time to R&d than a stage 3.

and why would a cam manufacturer have less of the more radical cam made?

ah! less DEMAND

and why is the DEMAND less?

could it be becuase people are sick of paying more money for the same piece of chill cast metal with slightly different measurements?

a civic dx costs less than a civic si becuase its truly less of a car, but how is a stage 3 cam physically more of a cam than a stage one?

 

There is MORE demand for the better cams. It makes the price increase. Look at the pic ^^^^^^^^.

And I dont work for these companies. I wouldnt know how the supply/demand curve for these products look. It could just be the supply is less, or it could just be the demand is more, or a combination of the two.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HoUTX98GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That made no rational sense whatsoever. You basically said what i said without any logic behind it.

As i said before the demand for better cams (more power) is there. And like the post before you says, there may be less supply of the "better" cams. The supply curve will shift to the left, and the demand curve will shift to the right. This makes the equilibrium (price) move up. This is basic economics and this is ABSOLUTELY the reason the cams are more expensive.

And it doesnt necessarily have anything to do with marketing. Im a marketing major and have taken a lot of economics classes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok. so youre saying the only logical reason why a "stage 3" cam is more han a "stage 1" cam is becuase people will pay for it.

i say that is bullshit, and probably the most idiotic thing ive ever heard. im saying, youre CORRECT, and id hope you agree that the fact that they can sell one for more than the other is total horse ****.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xDEFTONESx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ok. so youre saying the only logical reason why a "stage 3" cam is more han a "stage 1" cam is becuase people will pay for it.

i say that is bullshit, and probably the most idiotic thing ive ever heard. im saying, youre CORRECT, and id hope you agree that the fact that they can sell one for more than the other is total horse ****.</TD></TR></TABLE>


the more i think about this, the more i think the UGR guy needs to drop his price to 400, so a test on his cams to prove to people they arent total rocker-eating pieces of ****. measure them with test equipment to prove they arent way off.

then, duplicate every cam for every motor, and flood the market and put the big guys out of their rent payment.

 

Thats the way the world works man... Its the same for any product you buy, it all has to do with supply and demand.

In some cases when a manufacturer claims to have a "superior" product, they will try to charge more. When this happens, they treat their product like its in a different class of products than their competitors. That way they get away from their customers turning to "substitutes".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xDEFTONESx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


the more i think about this, the more i think the UGR guy needs to drop his price to 400, so a test on his cams to prove to people they arent total rocker-eating pieces of ****. measure them with test equipment to prove they arent way off.

then, duplicate every cam for every motor, and flood the market and put the big guys out of their rent payment.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is where marketing comes into play. If he can communicate to the market that his cams are superior (or at least comparable) to other cams on the market, then lowering the price will force demand to increase.

If he floods the market after convincing the market segment that the product is just as good as the others, then ALL prices for ALL camshafts will decrease (in theory).