this is a question for all of you boosted h22ers out there. i did a search but to no avail so now i bring my questions to you guys. i'm thinking of going with a drag gen 4 kit on my h22. my question is, with some bigger injectors, and my aem ems doing the tuning in conjunction with the bigger fuel pump that comes with the kit, would 10 lbs of boost on stock internals be too much? i know the weak point of the h series is the ring lands so that moves me to my next question. has anyone run the mahle coated pistons yet to see how they hold up to boost and how reliable they can be? don't get me wrong id be perfectly content running the 7 lbs of boost that the kit comes with and just tuning it but i wanna go somewheres near 300 plus daily driven and im worried the only thing stopping that is gonna be oem pistons. any ideas, i'd like to hear em.

 

im sure there is going to be a bunch of people telling you to search and ****, cause all the answers are out there...but i know the search can suck sometimes also...

now as disclaimer all the the following is from my experience, and my opinion...everyones engine is different...

first thing people will tell u is stop thinking in terms of boost, and start thinking in terms of whp. cause 10 # on a t-25 is not the same as 10# on a gt42, however u are pretty close in your numbers. i mad 301 at 10 # on a t3 60-1. this was stock bottom end and upgraded valvetrain. imo this would be the limit i would push the stock pistons. ive heard of a few people getting more, but is reliability an issue?

next thing they will tell u, is dont get a pre fabbed kit. putting together a kit will yield better results, and have more upgrade options in the future.(btw i will have a full custom kit avail in a month or two. same kit i used for 300 on stock block and 500 built engine)

as far as the mahle pistons i would not use them. ive never seen good results with forged pistons and frm. these may be different, but do u want to be the ginnie pig? it has sucked for all the people trying the past claims of frm compatible forged...

 

i wanna go prefab, but the drag gen 4 looks good to me. it comes with everything you need except "great" management. thats why i have the aem and ill be throwing some 440 injectors into the mix. 2600 is roughly what i spent to turbo my old civic and do it right so to get a kit that comes with everything for the same price and not deal with the hassles of waiting for pieces to come in and having to make this and that, ill take the pre fab. thanks for the input though.. i think i may stay away from mahles unless some people with experience come forward and change my mind



Modified by championshipwhite93si at 5:54 PM 10/23/2006

 

your tune is more important than the amount of boost you run

also, don't expect to put out any more than 260whp on those stock internals and have them last

If I were you I'd spend $2600 on a few nice allmotor parts and a final drive from mfactory, that would be a lot more fun and more reliable than a stock internal turbo h22

 

still id rather have 260 to wheels boosted than stay n/a and have alot less. ive saw alot of 280 plus cars on here on stock internals. but you are right, it is in the tune

 

260whp on a peaky powerband turbo h22 would get spanked by me, making around 200whp with a final drive

and yes this has been tried before, a friend of mine drove a turbo stock internal h22 for a while at about that hp level....then it blew up....that was after my brother and I both beat him

save up a few extra hundred bucks, and get an f22 block, put some $400 forged pistons in it, then bolt your h22 head to it, that would be awesome, you could easily pump out mid-300 (330-360) whp numbers and safely

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your tune is more important than the amount of boost you run

</TD></TR></TABLE>



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by championshipwhite93si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> but you are right, it is in the tune</TD></TR></TABLE>



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, don't expect to put out any more than 260whp on those stock internals and have them last

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i beg to differ, again its all about hte tune, and how u take care of ur car. i ran over a year on the stock block 10# @300 whp and never blew it...infact i think that one was the only one i havent blown, lol...and this new one (hopes i didnt just put my foot in my mouth, lol)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">260whp on a peaky powerband turbo h22 would get spanked by me, making around 200whp with a final drive

and yes this has been tried before, a friend of mine drove a turbo stock internal h22 for a while at about that hp level....then it blew up....that was after my brother and I both beat him</TD></TR></TABLE>

once again all about the tune, and turbo size as well as driver in this case. if u only plan on say 275 whp, aget a small responsive turbo and tune for a broard power range...also depends on what kind of race, track, strip, or light to light

 

what do you think about the f22 block though....you will gain stroke, be able to lower compression, and have forged pistons and iron sleeves....

you can pick up a good f22 block for about $400, and sell the h22 block for $600, then spend about $300-400 extra on the pistons and assembly of the block, arp hardware would be nice

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you think about the f22 block though....you will gain stroke, be able to lower compression, and have forged pistons and iron sleeves....

you can pick up a good f22 block for about $400, and sell the h22 block for $600, then spend about $300-400 extra on the pistons and assembly of the block, arp hardware would be nice</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh i think its a great idea....i have been toying with this idea even before the imfamious prelittlelude post...me and him used to talk about it in im's when everyone thought it was a stupid/crazy never work idea.

i act trird to convince someone a few weeks ago to do this, insted of cheap iron liners in a h22.

great for up to 400 or so whp with forged bottom end, but for true high whp numbers a real sleeve job is the only way to go

 

crazy question but does the h22 head bolt straight up and have no extra wiring issues with the f22 block?

 

yes, you just have to mod the f22 block a bit (oil orifices)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes, you just have to mod the f22 block a bit (oil orifices)</TD></TR></TABLE>

act its the oil pass in the head that need to be blocked. its not as easy as it appers to be, but its not as hard as you would think. plan it though and read THE theard and u should have no problems

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastludeh22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">act its the oil pass in the head that need to be blocked. its not as easy as it appers to be, but its not as hard as you would think. plan it though and read THE theard and u should have no problems</TD></TR></TABLE>

hmmm, i could have swore i read that it was the block lol. Oh well, thanks for the correction. I knew it was an oiling thing tho.

 

I should prolly already know this but is the f22 block all iron or is it aluminum with sleeves?

 

For what it's worth I've got an unused drag gen IV sitting in the closet... Chrome is flakeing off the pipes... And the hoses are pipe clamps are not quite as nice as I would have liked... Came with my car so I guess I can be pickey since I didn't fork over cash for it... I'm sure it's all serviceable though...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I should prolly already know this but is the f22 block all iron or is it aluminum with sleeves?</TD></TR></TABLE>

As far as I have ever seen all honda blocks are cast aluminum with your choice of sleeve, which is of course iron in this case

Whats so bad about those iron liners for h22s?? I wouldn't ever run them, but what is the problem? Do they move around or something? Oval out?

 

i think under boost they can sink.

also, i think you can only go so thick though with a liner becasuse you have to leave enough aluminum on the block to hold the liner where as a darton you cut the aluminum all the way out. Import Builders is doin my block right now with some pretty thick liner type sleeves so we'll see how it turns out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Whats so bad about those iron liners for h22s?? I wouldn't ever run them, but what is the problem? Do they move around or something? Oval out?</TD></TR></TABLE>

here's whats wrong with them.... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=870704

they dont hold up to true power, good for about the same as oem sleeves

 

hmm well now i'm having doubts about going f/i at all.. i hate being indecisive.

 

Don't have doubts...

Think of it this way...if you want a good build (NA or FI), it is best to have forged pistons and rods. The cost will be the same.

After awhile, most people start upgrading kits. I would take my time and piece everything together. LoveFab makes some nice exhaust manifolds (not as pricey as Full-Race), you can use stock cams with FI, just upgrade your valves and valvetrain for FI (you would do this for NA anyhow).

Always always always sleeve that FRM block. FI or NA, sleeve it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastludeh22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

here's whats wrong with them.... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=870704

they dont hold up to true power, good for about the same as oem sleeves</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah but thats a bad example, 90mm + 19 pounds of boost is kinda asking for it don't you think? damn, now i'm gonna have to watch the badger video again, haha

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastludeh22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

here's whats wrong with them.... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=870704

they dont hold up to true power, good for about the same as oem sleeves</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yeah but thats a bad example, 90mm + 19 pounds of boost is kinda asking for it don't you think? damn, now i'm gonna have to watch the badger video again, haha</TD></TR></TABLE>


that is really asking for it unless you have a open deck h22 97+.
those replacement sleeves and stronger(abes/ge/darton)
i dont like the closed dech h22 for boost

i think 88 mm is safe for all h22 sleeved blocks
90 in good for n/a but not for turbo,not for daily driver

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yeah but thats a bad example, 90mm + 19 pounds of boost is kinda asking for it don't you think? damn, now i'm gonna have to watch the badger video again, haha</TD></TR></TABLE>


ya 90 mm is big, and dont think i went that big on purpose, that engine had been though some stuff before that that required going that big. however i still think it would have held if it was true sleeves

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alterdcreations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


that is really asking for it unless you have a open deck h22 97+.
those replacement sleeves and stronger(abes/ge/darton)
i dont like the closed dech h22 for boost

i think 88 mm is safe for all h22 sleeved blocks
90 in good for n/a but not for turbo,not for daily driver</TD></TR></TABLE>

not that i would suggest going 90 mm, but they do make true sleeves for closed decks, doesnt have to be open deck, and doesnt have to be cheap ones in closed deck. i opersonally like benson, thats what i have now.

to the op dont be scared, i was just answering a question as to why not to cut corners. run low boost on stock till u build a good block, or buy a f22 block and run mid boost on forged internals, stock sleeves