hello. this is my first time on this board, but after i saw this segent, i figured it was the place to be.
i just picked up a 1991 civic hatchback for use as a track car. 75% HPDE, 20% autocross, 5% street is the intended use for this car. I have never owned a honda, and never really worked on one other than to do basic mainenance and repairs to customers cars. so i will be depending heavily on your suggestions and experience. After looking the car over, i have a short list of things i know i will need to do as far as repair, but dont know where to start insofar as mods. so heres what ive got in my head. please sugest budget oriented products that actually work. junkyard swaps are great as well.

i know from doing all the work for the corvette guys that the tracks we run are hard on brakes. the civic has front disc, rear drum. that'll have to go to 4 wheel disc.

i also doubt that the chassis, which has 200 thousand on it. is up to the task. springs and shocks are in the near future.

My fiancee as requested i cage the car and run 6 point harnesses. i want to keep her happy, and myself as safe as possible in case of a verry bad 4 wheel off (saw a guy roll his vette at kershar not too long ago).

power will come last. i wont need it until i have a lot more seat time in.
and fianlly, looking on ebay, i found a bunch of strut tower braces, tie bars, etc for very cheap. like a set of four pieces for 75 bucks: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

are these worth it, or am i wasting money?

did i miss anything?
thanks for all the help.
Michael

 

The EF (88-91 Civic) is a great car. Here are a few thoughts...

If you are going to cage the car, you ought to be able to reinforce the chassis at the same time. This makes the strut tower braces unnecessary.

In no particular order, I would begin with the following:
GOOD brake pads in front (Cobalt, Carbotech, Porterfield and Hawk are all outstanding)
Some decent tires (search and you'll get plenty of opinions a see some patterns)
Shocks and springs (also a lot of reading with a search)

Make sure the OE chassis bushings are in good shape. If not, maybe consider harder polyurethane replacements (Energy or Prothane). Just replacing bad bushings with new replacements will help plenty.

I drove mine for 275,000 on the stock 1500cc DX engine and really liked it. Save engine mods for last.

Start searching and reading, a LOT. That car and its CRX brother have been well documented on this site and others.

Enjoy.

Thawley

 

I'd cage it, get all the safety stuff together, get new discs for the front/race pads/new shoes out back, then buy some good tires/wheels, shocks/springs, and replace any bushings that are shot. After that, go hit the track and have fun, then you start fixing things you KNOW are holding you back.

 

Some bushing people over look on that car are the rear upper control arm bushings and the front radius rod bushings. Also buy a new master cylinder, it beats driving on a 15 yrd old master

 

You didn't mention autocross/track experience, but I'll assume you're relatively new.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SkyeC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd cage it, get all the safety stuff together, get new discs for the front/race pads/new shoes out back, then buy some good tires/wheels, shocks/springs, and replace any bushings that are shot. After that, go hit the track and have fun, then you start fixing things you KNOW are holding you back.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd take that list and skip the cage and associated safety items (seat, harness) for now.

You don't really want a bolt-in cage, and custom ones are a bit pricey. If you're really on a budget, pick up someone's used track toy or even dedicated race car.

This message approved by Cameron Diaz.



Seriously, let us know if you can't find a nice car for $5K-$10K.

 

ive got a few track days in. one weekend in a fairly built dakota, and another weekend in a mild c5 corvette. the only reason im not using the dakota (which is my daily driver) is that it WILL NOT keep the brakes. too much weight, not enough brake. and no upgrade kits or options that make it a little less than a daily. a friend of mine gave me the civic, which is the only way i can afford to do this. I get my days be NASAs' work two weekend, get a free weekend program.

the cage and 6 point harnesses are a request from my fiancee, who is helping me to do this. she goes to the track with me. did when i was drag racing, does it now that im starting HPDE. i dont mind it, and ill probably build my own if i cant find a weld in kit that i like. as far as seats, that was fartjher on down the list, as the stock seats are still kinda servicable.

i dont know much about these cars, as i havent even thought about tracking one until now, so i dont know how the front disc, rear drum setup will hold out. i will mostly run Kershaw and VIR, as they are the closest ones. i could run rockingham, but theres just too much armco for my taste.

i was planning on poly bushings, as a few of the chassis bushings are visibly worn. i will do new ball joints as a matter of course.
as far as wheels and tires, i will be searching this forum when i get a little more time. i got a couple of cars in at the shop that are presently taking a lt of time. if you guys are interested, one is an 88 corvette with a stroker that i am sorting out the dry sump oiling system and rewiring. the other is a 70 duster that is undergoing a full resto. we are now in reassembley stages.

thank youso far for the suggestions. please, feel free to keep adding to the pile. if there are any must reads, let me know. are there any inherent shortcomings to the car that should be corrected before going on track?

thanks again.
Michael

 

[QUOTE=dusterbd13]are there any inherent shortcomings to the car that should be corrected before going on track?/QUOTE]
Nothing particular to that car, more likely stuff related to a car that age. If you're going thru the chassis and brakes, it'll be fine. Then you can refine it as you go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dusterbd13 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the cage and 6 point harnesses are a request from my fiancee, who is helping me to do this. she goes to the track with me. did when i was drag racing, does it now that im starting HPDE. i dont mind it, and ill probably build my own if i cant find a weld in kit that i like. as far as seats, that was fartjher on down the list, as the stock seats are still kinda servicable. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you do the cage or rollbar, you need a seat-back brace or a racing seat, to keep you from banging against the cage in a backwards collision. Just something to keep in mind. Talk to your regional tech director to make sure you'll pass.

Also, the instructor will need equal protection.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dusterbd13 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont know how the front disc, rear drum setup will hold out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The stock brake system will be fine as long as you've gone through all the seals, front wheel bearings, hubs, ball joints, bushings, etc to make sure everything is in good shape. As others mentioned Hawk, Cobalt, or Carbotech brakes are all good choices. I've tried all three and prefer the Hawk Blues but YMMV.

The 88-91 Civics and CRXs are a pretty established "formula" for track work. Typically Koni SPSS3 revalved shocks, Ground Control adjustable coilovers with Eibach springs (500F, 700R is a good start), Suspension Techniques 3/4" adjustable rear bar, no front bar is what I run on my CRX. You may want to look into hardened front hubs in the future as they can fail with extended race/track use (OPM Autosports sells these along with the Koni's and front radius rod bearings).

Good luck and be safe!

Christian

 

I've got an 89 track CRX (time trial, HPDEs, AutoX, and Drag). They are fantastic and one of the cheapest cars to track. Here's some things to spend $ on for track use;
-SS brake lines (JEGs)
-High temp brake fluid (I use ATE blue)
-Good pads (I've got Cobalt Friction GTS - good cold bite for AutoX)
-Pull the backing plates off your front rotors to keep them cool
-No need to upgrade brakes right way, but if you get the bug FastBrakes has some kits, and if you add discs to the rear you need swap out the proportioning valve
-Polyurathane suspension bushings (I've got Energy)
-F&R rear tower braces help, but depending on your cage may be redundant
-I like my Ground Contol coilovers w/ Koni sports, but you can get by with a good set of spring and shocks
-Rear Suspension Techniques Adjustable sway bar & Skunk2 tie bar can really tighten the rear and dial out some of the understeer
-Hood pins (my hood kept popping up on the track from the chasis flex)

Now for the cage. Many people hate prefabbed cages, but for an HPDE or even time trial where car2car contact should never happen I think they are fine. They meet spec, are an effective safety device, and are much cheaper than a custom cage. Custom cages are better (if built by someone who knows what they are doing), but if you can't afford the $2K+ price tag, I say a prefabbed caged is far better than nothing. I have an Autopower roll bar (don't need a full cage for TT), 5pt harness and MOMO Start seats. Charles at Safedrives.com has always been helpful for me.

I run TT's w/ the Tarheel Sports Car Club (thscc.com), and will be at Rockingham Nov 4-5. Stop by if you can. Enjoy!

 

I highly recommend kirk racing if they make a cage for you. They have four points, bolt ins and weld ins, and a full cage option, with many add ons. Resonably priced, specialy if you can weld your own in. I bought the four point for my eg hatch, and had my dad weld her in. I love it, seems beefy as hell.

 

i was going to go and check on the kirk racing site before work, but it seems to be temporarily out of order. anyone have pictures of theyre weld in in a hatchback that i can look at?

thanks for all the help so far.
when i get done with my 12 hour day, ill see if i can sum up the current plan for the car.

Michael

 

Don't think it has been mentioned yet, but a steering rack end bushing would probably be a good idea if it hasn't been done already in those 200k miles.

And if you need honda oem parts, I like to use these guys: http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/
Reasonable prices and I've had no problems doing business with them even from the west coast.

Good luck and have fun!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JamesS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like to use these guys: http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/
</TD></TR></TABLE> those are the prices that i get from the dealer, and i work for honda.

i havent actually owned a set, but i hear that traction bars work really well to help reduce understeer on 88-91s (someone correct me if i'm wrong). if you don't decide to go that route, new radius arm bushings are in order, and get new nuts for it too, since those will likely be rounded off by the time you get them out. it will save you a headache or 7
oh and these cars respond very well to any chassis stiffening
have fun, and seat time is your best weapon

 

the plan i have worked out so far:

change the belts, hoses, etc.
ditch the A/C, as it doesnt work anyway.
New rotors and Carbotech pads (dunno if wilwood makes the H compound for the civic. need to check)
rebuild the rear drums
SS brake lines
Energy suspension bushings. and suspension rebuild.
The springs and shocks/struts are still OK at the moment, so when they break ill replace them. what do you think of the KYB GR2 pieces?
Cage of some fashion
6 point harnesses, G-force is what i have on the shelf already, and theyre still certified
upgrade to 15 inch wheels and kumho tires. dunno what wheels, would prefer as inexpensive as possible. maybe factory aluminums off another model?
gut the interior except for the CD player and speakers.
more instrumentation (oil temp, tach, OP, WT, Volts)
Accusump (ive got it on the shelf)

anything im missing?

Michael

 

I just bought a set Kumho Ecsta SPTs from tire rack (205/50/15) for $54 each. These will be my street/rain tires. The tires are pretty good and the price is awesome. I also just bought a set of rims w/ shaved tires on ebay for $260 from a HT member.

You should be able to get some rims new for about $100 each from Tire Rack/Discount Tire/ Ebay. Check the HT tire/wheel thread for some steals. I'd recommend a 15X7 rim, the 7" width gives you the option for some beefy 225's

Don't forget the sustec rear sway bar to help compensate for the factory understeer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dusterbd13 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the plan i have worked out so far: what do you think of the KYB GR2 pieces?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Spring for the Koni's. They've got stiffer valving and are rebuildable.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">upgrade to 15 inch wheels and kumho tires. dunno what wheels, would prefer as inexpensive as possible. maybe factory aluminums off another model?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd suggest sticking with 14x7 wheels... they'll fit as much tire as you need more easily than 15's. Team Dynamics makes a strong, lightweight wheel that you can get for around $130/wheel (OPM sells them too)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Accusump (ive got it on the shelf)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not needed really. The D series engine tend not to oil starve even with a stock, unbaffled pan. An oil cooler and remote oil filter isn't a bad idea though.

 

what does FNG mean?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pos_cd5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what does FNG mean?</TD></TR></TABLE>"F'n New Guy" is my guess

 

exactly.
michael