UPDATE AT Bottom

B18C1 block bored 82mm
P73 A0 pistons
C1 crank/rods
B16 head
valve seals, supertech VS/retainers are about 8k miles old
stock injectors/fuel pump, B&M FPR
skunk2 stage 2s


Well I just got this setup done about a month ago and its burning oil already.
I was really paranoid about how to break it in and read up on it a lot. Yet it still didn't go well. This is how I broke it in.

Started her up with ND-30 for about 10mins, A/F according to the PLX was about 14.8. Went for a easy drive with the short bursts (revved to 5k) checked A/F and it was always around the 14.9-14.2 range. Then did some engine <U>braking</U> to try to seal up the rings better. Went onto the highway and brought it up to around 8k and A/F was still not looking too bad. Occasionally the a/f was around 15.1ish. The tune from my B16 setup must've been good enough for the 1.8 setup. Went back to the garage and changed the oil after about 15 miles of random driving.

Drove it like this for a week with the occasion 8ks pulls but not often. Got it street tuned by Chris Harris on Crome 1 week after the rebuild (so it had been driven "untuned" for a total of 1 week). Haven't changed anything since and its burning oil. I see blue smoke only when I'm cruising in 5th gear and give it gas. When I do 8500rpm pulls I don't see as much or at all.

Did I kill my rings? Or is it possible that they're still trying to seal up?

Also, last time I checked my compression (maybe 2 weeks ago?) the numbers were (from 1-4) 245,235,245,245


Modified by SkoundrelUSA at 10:09 AM 10/6/2006

 

are you sure its the rings that are causing you to burn oil???

check out the valve seals also....maybe do a leakdown test and figure out if everything is sound....

 

I don't know how to do a leakdown or have a tester.

But the valve seals aren't that old and pretty sure they looked fine when we were putting everything together.

But I guess its one of those then right? rings or valve seals, or even the hone maybe

 

What kind of rings? Chrome rings need a rougher hone than moly rings. Chrome rings also take a good amount of time to fully seat. If you see oil burning on overrun, like in second gear at high rpm and you let off the gas--then its probably valve seals. If it was your rings you would probably see the most blue smoke when you were heavy on the throttle.

 

not sure what rings they are. i ordered them with the pistons through the machine shop that assembled the bottom end. I wasn't present before they were installed.

It does sound like its the valve seals by your description. I usually see the blue smoke when I'm letting off the gas not so much when I shift/rev high.

What could have caused this?

 

Time and mileage.

Possibly no lube when installed?

I have valve seal issues too.

 

ugghh my life sucks

 

atleast its only the valve seals and it not the rings. no soo bad

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by anthony90si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">atleast its only the valve seals and it not the rings. no soo bad</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMO either way sux

 

Ok so I also forgot to mention I think my engine is having breathing problems. There's always oil creeping out of the oil cap (even though I tightened it really hard) and the headgasket has a small leak.

So I took apart my PCV valve and noticed there was a decent amount of oil inside the line and the valve. Would this have anything to do with my smoking/burning/leaking problem?

 

Faulty PCV's have been known to cause such a thing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-Rob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Faulty PCV's have been known to cause such a thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But if it was broken, would it be pulling oil out? I would think it just wouldn't be doing anything? Or is the vaccuum "too strong"?

 

Why did you use 30ND to break it in? If your having a problem with breathing, this may be your only problem. Your bottom end may be fine. It would actually make sense if your blowing smoke at cruise, the pressure would just keep building and building.

When it's a valve stem issue you usually have smoke after vehicle sits a while and then you start up, OR, the vehicle can sit and idle for a half hour or so and then rev. and it will blow smoke, however, the latter could still be a breathing issue. Is your breather system all factory?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by juevi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why did you use 30ND to break it in? If your having a problem with breathing, this may be your only problem.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

A friend suggested it and I read that LS/VTEC and he said to use that too.

Are you saying the oil caused this? Or were you talking about the PCV?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by juevi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When it's a valve stem issue you usually have smoke after vehicle sits a while and then you start up, OR, the vehicle can sit and idle for a half hour or so and then rev. and it will blow smoke, however, the latter could still be a breathing issue. Is your breather system all factory?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It doesn't really smoke at start up or at idle. Mostly when I'm in 5th on the highway.

Yeah its all factory. Just have the regular PCV setup and a hose from the valve cover to the intake, which was dry (oil free). I was thinking about making a ghetto catch can for now, but I gotta find the how to.

 

im surprised no one has touched on the initial lack of tuning. you said you saw 14-15:1 occasionally? was this while you were doing the "engine braking" at 8k? if thats way too lean and can cause damage very quickly.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878397

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRCRXsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im surprised no one has touched on the initial lack of tuning. you said you saw 14-15:1 occasionally? was this while you were doing the "engine braking" at 8k? if thats way too lean and can cause damage very quickly.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878397</TD></TR></TABLE>

Isn't 14.7ish the ideal A/F ratio? I thought as long as its not extremely off like 14-13+... or 15-16+... it would be fine for a couple days

When I said occasionally, I meant like for the most part (the range I'm usually driving at) it was like 14.5 but at some RPMs it would hit 15ish. So I tried to avoid revving in those areas until I had it tuned.

 

I wouldn't worry about your A/F ratio, people run even leaner than that on some NA setups, I doubt you toasted anything. And I don't think you hurt anything during break in, but just never use 30 ND to break something in. I use normal 5-30 or even mixed with some ATF, but that's just me, everybody has their theory's.

Are you still running the same oil, or did you change it? I'd really look into the pcv system. Check everyhose on that motor, change the pcv with factory honda pcv, and you might want to hook up a vacuum guage to it and see what's going on. That may help. See what vacuum is doing at idle, accel, and at cruise in fifth. There are a lot or possibility's. It's possible it's in the bottom, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet, it could be something stupid.

Did you put the oil restrictor thing in the block (between the head and block)?

 

I only left the 30ND in for 15miles. Then changed it out with Castrol GTX 5W30 and been running that ever since. I changed the oil out 50miles after that, then 100, and 1000 is coming up. Then I'll just be doing the normal 3000.

Yeah I'll try a new PCV and see if it helps, even though my current one isn't that old...What's the Oil restrictor thing, the black box?

 

14.7 is ideal (stoich). BUT at higher RPM's and WOT it generates too much heat and starts damaging ****. thats why people tune to 13-13.5 @ WOT. ive never seen anyone tune much higer then that. low load and low RPM's @ 14-15 is ok, just not at full throttle and thats where my concern is.

honda's stock AFR is in the 12's for WOT...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I only left the 30ND in for 15miles. Then changed it out with Castrol GTX 5W30 and been running that ever since. I changed the oil out 50miles after that, then 100, and 1000 is coming up. Then I'll just be doing the normal 3000.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like you did pretty good there.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's the Oil restrictor thing, the black box?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's part of the breathing system, something you might want to look at, but not what I was thinking of. What I was thinking of (not nessecarly applicable to this situation but involving the oiling system) was the small piece between the block and the head, it's a little silver oil restrictor of sorts. Some people forget to put that in during a rebuild.

One other thing, you may want to try (don't forget trying a vacuum guage), but you may want to cruise in fifth for a while and get it to smoke, and then drive carefully home and pull your plugs and see what they look like. But don't rev. the thing, just drive lightly. If they ALL look the same or are oily, that might give us some insight. If it's just ONE plug, then we can focus a little more in one area.

 

when the rings seal, it happens within the first few minutes of driving. how they seal depends on you. vacuum needs to be applied to the cylinders immediately. 2nd gear, 40-60mph, 10-12 times. full throttle then closed throttle. the closed throttle at a modestly high rpm will bring strong vacuum to each cylinder and seal the rings nice and tight. if you cruise at a steady rpm too long within the first couple of minutes and they will not seal well. but this also makes me wonder where the ring gaps were placed.

 

How much power did you made? Hmm, what does your timing map looks like? Did Chris pulled alot timing of the map?
One of the things you could do is look at the bores on your cylinders with a scope and see what the walls look like. If you see alot of vertical scratches, you had wall to piston contact, this could be causing you to burn oil.
I had the same problem once. My cylinders walls were all scratch up, I was running about 11.8 cr. One thing you should start studying and try to find like I am trying to is timing on the motor. You afr can look good, but if you have to much timing, lets say stock gsr timing or b16 timing, you can mess up the motor bad.
I havent yet seen here or anywhere else people talk about timing pulling with higher cr.
I would start with getting a type R timing map and tune from there.

 

Are you running a stock valve cover? I've seen instances where a valve cover not properly baffled will cause problems as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by juevi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you running a stock valve cover? I've seen instances where a valve cover not properly baffled will cause problems as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah its a stock valve cover with just the "sidewall" cut off for the cam gears.

 

Alright so I'm having a decent amount of blow-by too. Oil is all around my oil cap, and I see the headgasket leaks a little oil also. So I checked my PCV valve/line and there was oil in it. I think that might be why I'm smoking a little blue sometimes also...

Not sure what I should do. I have a normal black box/PCV valve setup and just the hose from the valve cover to the intake pipe. Am I missing anything else, breathing wise? Not sure whats going on here. Should I look into getting a catch can or something?

I also just put on a new PCV valve (2 days old) and it still has the same symptoms