this evening i was able to get my car back on the dyno after some initial dyno time with 93 octane in the car and a full 2 1/4 in. exhaust with a cat and 2 resonators. the car made 191whp and 122 torque. tonite we dropped the exhaust at the header and i had c16 in her. final results were 214whp and 138 torque. i was amazed how much power was left in the car. i was satisfied with the 191 2 weeks ago. the dyno was a mustang dyno located in ct at european performance labs.
my friends going to post the dyno sheets right below of the tuned 93 octane map with the exhaust compared to tonite with the same tune but no exhaust at all. 19whp. pretty ridiculous. second is the graph of the baseline with no exhaust versus the final c16 map. so much area under the curve was gained. 17 whp and 15 ft lbs in some areas.

heres the specs of the motor:
BLOCK:
81.5mm arias sleeved ls block
arias 13.2:1 pistons
eagle rods
eagle knife edged 89mm crank
GE 3 main girdle kit
HEAD:

twm 52mm throttle bodies
portflow gsr head
gsr retainers
gsr valves
toda valvesprings
toda b cams
dtr b-unit

cars run on hondata s300.my best run at atco 2 weekends ago was 13.22 at 104 with a 2.0 60' on mt 22's that were like 5 yrs old. i just bought m&h 23x8x13 that will be on the car when i go to the track friday. let me know what you guys think.

Shaun

 

nice gains!!

 

Good night tonite, to bad its still slow! just playin here's your pics.

 

214 whp on a mustang dyno, from a 1.8L!

Lets go run some 12's friday

 

I was thinkin, wow...those numbers seem kinda low. Then I saw it was on a Mustang dyno.......nice build man!

 

thanks guys. i going to pick up some pro 1's and try those on this motor before i tear her down this winter. hopefully those will pick up even more power over the toda b's. anyone have any guesses what dynojet whp might reflect?

 

im guessing your compression is pretty high with a LS crank and GSR head. prolly over 13.2 eh?

its no wonder c16 helped.

i dont need to say anything bout the exhaust. you say your amazed at the power increase but im not. you were really holding the motor back. pretty sweet lookin TQ curve though, bet that thing really rips now. id rather see what the motor could do with pro 2's personally...

 

i would also skip the pro1s and go right for the pro2, they have a pretty large non-vtec lobe and you have a lot of compression that can be bled off for pump gas. with the 1.52 RS and itb's it wont mind the longer duration.

Tbone got mark's 1.8liter lsvtec with gsr head @11.8:1 to idle nicely and it goes great on pro2s. just be sure to pick up some titanium retainers and check the valve-valve/piston-valve clearance first. lookin good!

 

Nice #s.. Is the 2 1/4" exhaust a typo?

 

haha lol nope. i wanted to pass emissions so i reused the exhaust off the single cam that was in it. it had a 2 1/4 high flow cat to a tanabe catback with 2 resonators and a muffler. im going to be making a 3 inch this was temporary. i never realized how much exhausts can restrict power. well i wasnt sure if anything bigger than pro1's would be overcamming the motor. seems general consensus is to try something bigger. i will talk to tbone and see what he thinks about pro2 maybe a pro3?? thanks for the input guys.

 

checking ptv and vtv wont be a problem thanks to mikes cam degreeing kit which works great thanks mike

 

well, if it were a nonvtec that had to drive on the street then yeah, i can see that there is a point of too much duration. if your motor presently responds well to retarding the intake, then IMO that is indicative of a motor wanting a later closing intake valve. since your rod to stroke ratio is fairly low at 1.52, the piston pulls away from the head quicker and rises from bottom dead center slower compared to say, a b16/itr/gsr with longer rods/less stroke. therefore the intake charge has less tendency to get spit back out before the intake valve closes.. since the piston is coming up fairly slow relative to other motors.. get what i mean? stroker motors can handle later and later intake closing.

anyways, retard the intake and see how the car responds.. an accelerometer on the street would be a good way to determine what it wants if you had access to one. trying at the track would be even better if you could get enough runs in. weeknight test and tune?

 

actually im going to atco raceway tomorrow. lol funny u mention. i will try retarding the intake cam and seeing how she responds. now i only made 1 cam gear adjustment on the dyno last night and that was retarding the exhaust cam 2 degrees(1 notch on the gear). and she picked up power all the way up and even carried power longer. it was getting late so thats where we stopped.

 

so to toss some ideas around.. if it responded favorably to retarding the exhaust (opening and closing later, increasing overlap period)

to me that indicates that the itb/valvejob/header combo is working well. you increased the opportunity for reversion, yet it gained. you reduced the initial blowdown pressure of opening the exhaust early (with more cylinder pressure to blast the pulse out quickly) yet it gained. opening the exhaust later meant that the cylinder pressure was applied to the piston for a longer period of time, so thats where the extended torque came from. if you keep retarding the exhaust the benefit will eventually peak and decline. you want that balance between extending the time that pressure is applied to the piston and still having a solid blowdown without overlap being too long.

me personally, i would keep going until the exhaust peaked, then play with the intake until that peaked, and finally try a degree in each direction on the exhaust to see if changing the intake created a new sweet spot for the exhaust.

do you know what ranges your can move your gears in and still have adequate clearance? btw- i could certainly be wrong about these things.. but it all works in my head. hopefully the results are similar.

 

on paper everythings youve said so far makes sense to me also. unfortunately i dont have info on my piston to valve and valve to valve clearances. i had the motor assembled at a machine shop in ny who are very reputable, but i didnt get much information out of them when i originally picked up the longblock, and they were flooded recently and lost most of their paperwork. johns motor at max. advance intake was .052 and his exhaust max. retarted was .042. his setup was different than mine with a less agressive wiseco 11:1 84mm piston but more aggresive vtec lobe of the skunk pro1's. thats the only info i have to base off which really doesnt apply to my motor at all, but makes me a little more comfortable considering realistically im shooting in the dark as far as how much to advance or retard. is using the track a good enough test bunny versus a dyno to make changes, like what will i look at mph only, cause e.t. i really have control over if i shift faster 1 pass to the next or launch better etc. im definitely all ears on trying to dial in the cam gears some more, i just dont know if i should wait to go back on the dyno

 

if you borrow one of those spring compressors that lets you leave the head on, i can explain how to check your piston to valve clearance with my cam fixture, but valve to valve requires the head being off.. which is well worth checking IMO.

how many runs did you get and how consistent were they? consistency/repeatability is probably the best quality in a driver. if your consistency is an issue or the track is so crowded that you only get a few runs, accelerometer street testing may be the best way to check. you can just begin at the same rpm and load using a tach and vaccuum guage, full throttle it in one gear and read the accel data to know if you went faster or not. no shifts to skew the numbers, and you can do say three pulls per setting then average them if there are still consistency issues.

if the car gets down the track faster, then you already proved what we all hope the dyno represents, without the $120 an hour fee.

do you have datalog capability?

 

yea i have datalogging with the s300. what would i look for if i make a cam change in the log to let me know how the car responded? i feel i am a consistent driver, but ive only made 13 passes on the car, so i still feel like i can get more consistent with more seat time. id say this car would run faster than 104 with the power it made, but i guess well see tomorrow

 

i asked about datalogging because changing the cam settings might leave the motor wanting a little different timing or injector duration and you wouldnt know unless you had a playback of your sensors during the run.

do you know what your total timing advance is in the peak rpms, or approximately how much more advance the motor was able to run with c16 over pumpgas?

 

last night sucked.

 

?

 

drove 4 hours to atco and didnt even get 1 run in. rotary blew up and they shut the track down. kicked everyone out like 3 hours early.

 

wtf thats gay! ever try lebanon valley dragway in upstate NY.. its probably closer than E town for you and the track is nice.

 

nah ive never been there, ive heard mixed reviews. on c16 total timing was 31.5 degrees. friday night was a momentum killer. hopefully ill be going to etown wednesday for another test n tune so well see how that goes. mike just curiously i have an endyn catch can run from the two fittings on the back of the block going to my catch can and i manually drain it. i drained it before my dyno session the other night and made probably 15 runs on the dyno, and after maybe 5 more wot passes on the street it overflowed on me. just wondering if maybe i should look into another catch can off the front of the valve cover, or maybe look into blowby issues if that seems out of the norm.

 

damn 93oct. with 13:x compression...whoooo!

nice new numbers the car looks clean too. any news on droppin in another set of cams?

i'd be worried about filling up the catch can on one pass...but yours overfilled after 15+ passes. people with same problem have had success with adding a second catch can off the valve cover, so I would try that. i got my catch can from http://www.kms-fab.com theyre a lil bigger then the endyn. maybe switch the endyn to the valve cover and run the bigger one on the block.

 

it sounds like you dont have it set up to drain on its own, or like its blowing liquid oil into it rather than mist.

is it mounted really low or is the bottom hose kinked? the lower hose should return oil to the return galley closest to the tranny on back of the block. valvecover vents wouldnt be a bad thing either if you wanted to just have some nipples added to the can and your VC..