So here i go again back and forth with my build...i must decide before October. If i stroke my B16b what will i loose? RPM's rs ratio...what are all the negative effects of this? Will i be loosing reliability? I thought about going bigger bore but im stil up in the air. Looking for a fast dd thats reliable. I want to hit 200 whp and i know stroking it would be the easiest so im all ears to suggestions.

 

there's no real answer. it's all subjective.

as a street car i'd rather have torque though.

but then if you get those close ratio gears and revved the 1.6 higher with a good set of cams you'd prob be faster

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there's no real answer. it's all subjective.

as a street car i'd rather have torque though.

but then if you get those close ratio gears and revved the 1.6 higher with a good set of cams you'd prob be faster</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought about that but wasnt sure if it would be the case. Im going with RM M22x cams and valve train...so im not sure what to go with on the bottom end. or if i should just build the head (pnp, valve job and all that doog stuff) add the close gears and leave it at that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B16b-EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I thought about that but wasnt sure if it would be the case. Im going with RM M22x cams and valve train...so im not sure what to go with on the bottom end. or if i should just build the head (pnp, valve job and all that doog stuff) add the close gears and leave it at that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if i were you i'd do the gears + head now. regardless of whatever you do, you'll benefit from them.

you lucky dohc bastards. you can change overlap with camgears. i wish my sohc could do that

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if i were you i'd do the gears + head now. regardless of whatever you do, you'll benefit from them.

you lucky dohc bastards. you can change overlap with camgears. i wish my sohc could do that
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for your help Bense. I wil be ordering the gears next week. Not i should keep the stock 5th correct and change out 1-3-4.

 

Can anybody shed some light on the negative effects of maybe stroking the motor?

 

If you were to stroke it using the 87 crank I can't think of anytihng bad. The 89 though, I personally would not do. People will argue with me about that but IMO 87&gt;89. The 87 I've seen carry torque clear to 9k, does not have a problem revving, provides a substantial amount of torque and works well with pretty much any cam choice out there. The 89 rarely carries torque past 7.5, doesn't like to rev, but when combined with Pro1's, it gives you a tire melting midrange. Like any motor build, just comes down to where YOU want to make your power and what kind of driving YOUR CAR is going to be doing a majority of the time. It's all about the total package....from the block to the head.

 

Custom pistons/rods with 89 FTW.

Just KISS and use a 87.2 setup.

 

Can someone explain the difference between an 87 and an 89 crank. sorry for the n00b question

 

the b18 vtec cranks are 87.2mm stroke
the b18 non vtec cranks are 89mm stroke

with the shorter 87.2 stroke, they use 137.9 rods to give it a 1.58 r/s ratio
with the 89mm stroke they use 137mm rods and it has a lower 1.54 r/s ratio

search google for r/s ratio for further info

 

Thanks bense

 

i dunno, it's really a catch 22,

If it were me i'd probably do something like a b17 crank with ctr pistons and eagle 140.5mm rods in a b18c / b16b

1.73 r/s ratio, 11.53:1 with a b16 head

if i had a b16b swap here's what I'd do in the following order
1. close-ratio gears
2. valvesprings, retainers + stronger cams with cam gears
3. then do something with the block. stroke it for street, leave it as is for track.

 

but if I had that setup i'd to steps 1 & 2 and then be done

 

It doesn't sound like a road racing setup so I'd just use a 1.8L crank.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It doesn't sound like a road racing setup so I'd just use a 1.8L crank.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No not really road racing just yet. SInce its my dd im waiting to get a beater i can use for autox.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B16b-EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can anybody shed some light on the negative effects of maybe stroking the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>

you will loose long term durablity at high RPMs.... in all reality you really plan on running this motor for 20-40k miles without rebuilding it or getting rid of it?

77.4

87.2 &lt;~you should have just bought a ITR swap

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clean rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you were to stroke it using the 87 crank I can't think of anytihng bad. The 89 though, I personally would not do. People will argue with me about that but IMO 87&gt;89. The 87 I've seen carry torque clear to 9k, does not have a problem revving, provides a substantial amount of torque and works well with pretty much any cam choice out there. The 89 rarely carries torque past 7.5, doesn't like to rev, but when combined with Pro1's, it gives you a tire melting midrange. Like any motor build, just comes down to where YOU want to make your power and what kind of driving YOUR CAR is going to be doing a majority of the time. It's all about the total package....from the block to the head.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Ok....the CTR motor is different from any other B16, I forget how, it might be the block...It's taller like a B18 I think. Anyways, if you get a GSR crank and rods it's basically an ITR motor with more compression and closer gears. (althought it still has a 4.4 FD....switch to the 4.9 = money in the bag)

I agree with building it like it is before stroking it. But I would definitely stroke it eventually, even if the R/S is a little worse, it will be the same as an ITR motor, and it doesn't seem to mind revving.

 

Thanks guys...im pulling off the head this weekend and sending it to portflow...from there i will be doing a cam and valve train upgrade...most likely the RM package. Then off to the dyno

 

http://www.inlinefour.com/spoon18lstro.html

Get that, and you'll pretty much have the ITR engine you should have gotten from the get-go.

Like Bense said though, close gear setup, head package and call it a day. Oh, you might want some STICKIER tires though with that gearing...

 

I am familiar with that kit...i go to IL4 about 3 times a week. Its a real pain in the i knew the seller of my motor personaly and knew the engines condition...and im sure i have plenty sticky tires...none of those Azeins for me thanks either yoks, dunlop, or parelli

 

how to stroke a B16B by turbohf:

SELL YOUR B16B and buy a B18C... better yet buy a broken GSR motor and send the head off to Portflow. then rebuild the block with the pistons and rods you want to get your compression... why completely take apart a perfectly good B16B? expecially to make it a 1.8l. the Honda engineers went to great legnths to de-stroke a B18C5 to make the B16B, why reverse everything thing they did?
after you take it all apart your just left with the head, which isnt all that special. Portflow (or whoever) can make you a way better flowing head....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbohf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how to stroke a B16B by turbohf: the Honda engineers went to great legnths to de-stroke a B18C5 to make the B16B, why reverse everything thing they did?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No.

Mugen and Spoon both sell the 87.2 cranks as stroker options.

they didn't want to put the ITR engine in the CTR because then nobody would buy an ITR.

BTW, i'm not sure if you realize this, but the b16b isn't like any other b16. it has a gsr block with the longest b-series rods at 142.3mm it would be cheaper, less time and less consuming for someone to put a gsr/itr crank w/ gsr/itr rods in the engine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW, i'm not sure if you realize this, but the b16b isn't like any other b16. it has a gsr block with the longest b-series rods at 142.3mm ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1469575 &lt;~my parts... not to mention that i have JUST rebuilt a B16B and put it into my car. i am 100% aware of what a B16B is...notice how i said they DE-STROKED AN ITR MOTOR... i know that a B16B is as tall as a B18C there where two sitting on the floor next to my B16B, not to mention a B16A... from the pics in the thread above it also apears that i have infact held 142.3mm B16B rods in my hand...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it would be cheaper, less time and less consuming for someone to put a gsr/itr crank w/ gsr/itr rods in the engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that comment makes no sence... i just took a B16B apart, and it seemed like it was a lot easier to put the **** i took out back in than having to track down some GSR/ITR parts and have pistons and **** pressed on, etc, etc...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No.

Mugen and Spoon both sell the 87.2 cranks as stroker options.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

k...nothing to do with Honda or its engineers.... SPOON/Mugen are both AFTERMARKET companies...

 

Thanks for your posts guys...I've decided that because i like the engine for what it is and what it does...im probably going to leave the bottom end alone for a while and continue my focus on the head. If i ever need to do a rebuild then i will either bore it or stroke it at that time.