Ive got a JDM Cable YS1 with the larger spline, and matched up to it, a JDM b16b and putting down 147 hp and 97 ft.lbs torque. Now the problem I am having is that on the big tracks I race on, the car will only use up to the max of 4th gear and I cant get it into 5th (even though the straight allows you to go from say 100 at entry to 290 km/hr for most porsches and vipers), and im maxing out at the top of 4th gear... it just wont pull enough. My question is now, what can I do to shorten 4th and 5th gear? is there anything I can do with this transmission or am I stuck with switching to hydro and finding close gear ratios?

 

I know that the S1/Y1 B16a trannies have just a touch shorter gearing. I am also running a cable and am reluctant to go hydro.

Another thing is that you may be able to go to the 4.7 type-r final drive. I have put my ATS diff that was made only for type-r into two cable based trannies so far (S1 and YS1) without issue, except the speed sensor no longer is useable.

I dont know about the pinion gear shaft, but the ring gear should work.

 

I wonder how the 4.7 would work. Currently for the rest of the track the gearing is perfect, the only real thing I require at this momemnt is to have 4th and 5th closer together. I am still learning about transmissions, gearing and how they work relative to speed and track times... all I know is I am lost..lol

 

97ft/lbs of torque? I say you keep the tranny a toss the engine. A JDM B20 goes for $450-500. Probably cheaper than a final drive or a hydro gearbox...

Here's what my junkyard B20 (non-VTEC) looks like against a B16 tuned buy the same guy:

 

Yep, a B20 + ARP rod bolts would be mighty nice! If you're dead-set on keeping that engine, you can play around with what gears would work best for you using this info (all Honda tranny specs): http://hondaswap.com/reference...29132/ And then this gearing calculator: http://www.autocrossing.com/cgi-bin/gearcalc.cgi

Do the one you have currently first, to give yourself a baseline, then play around with other gearings to see what gears would best fit your application.

Edit: And Thawley, how the hell did you get within like 4lb/ft of your hp output? I have a strong B20 as well, but it's not THAT strong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And Thawley, how the hell did you get within like 4lb/ft of your hp output? I have a strong B20 as well, but it's not THAT strong.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I donno... Its pretty stock. Just a DC 4-2-1, and AEM intake and a Hondata S-300. Just the basics...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ^AnDre^ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ive got a JDM Cable YS1 with the larger spline, and matched up to it, a JDM b16b and putting down 147 hp and 97 ft.lbs torque. Now the problem I am having is that on the big tracks I race on, the car will only use up to the max of 4th gear and I cant get it into 5th (even though the straight allows you to go from say 100 at entry to 290 km/hr for most porsches and vipers), and im maxing out at the top of 4th gear... it just wont pull enough. My question is now, what can I do to shorten 4th and 5th gear? is there anything I can do with this transmission or am I stuck with switching to hydro and finding close gear ratios?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Strange i have a B16a with the same trans and i pull 168hp at 101lb/ft torque and its a bone stock motor wih a bunch of miles, poor quality header, and a stock type r intake on it? Why is your engine not pulling as much hp? I would look in to more hp because there is not much in way of gear selection for cable trans.

 

Well you could always make more power (more torque, or increase the rev limit)

But if you want to mess with trannies then by all means shorten up 4th and 5th.
There are companies that do make these (ATS, Quaife, Inifinitude/MFactory)
Still though, with a torqueless-B16 methinks you'll be limited in how much more
speed you will pick up on the straight.

I thought we covered the hydro/YS1 cable thing already. All hydro trannies use the YS1 style internals. Why the continued confusion?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rene M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Strange i have a B16a with the same trans and i pull 168hp at 101lb/ft torque and its a bone stock motor wih a bunch of miles, poor quality header, and a stock type r intake on it? Why is your engine not pulling as much hp? I would look in to more hp because there is not much in way of gear selection for cable trans.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your dyno can't be directly compared to his, as it could be a different type of dyno, different air temp, humidity, etc.

 

I will try to post my dyno graph. The motor should be fine. We have a b18b sitting at home making 144hp and 124 ft/lb non-vtec which we opted for the b16b (a friend was selling it and we liked having a spare motor). the B16b was tested on a dynopack dyno (and has a vtec controller) and the b18b on a roller dyno (not sure what kind.. i believe dynojet). The b16b was wideban tuned to fix some fuel problems we were having and we didnt go any further. My mechanic is suggesting getting an AEM EMS to tune the thing to get max power. I am wondering what a stock b16b would do with a AEM EMS. All I know is i am almost sickened by the amount of money we are spending on racing to compete at some what of a competitive level.

FYI, the b16b was bought of a friend who is a competitive racer and was treated well by him and the long block was brand new when he picked it up 2 years prior. We trusted him (as opposed to one of the import places which we almost bought a b18c5 from but the compression was almost 1/2 of what it should be).

I know the tranny issues was discussed before, but I dont get any of this s#%t in regards to transmission and transmission codes and gearing. So far ive wasted 3000 on useless lsd's and mis parts which dont fit and I was told would fit and supposivly will fit.... AARRRRGGGHH!!!.... sorry.. just needed to loose some steam there....

I dont know.. maby im just gonna say nuts to the whole thing and buy a b18c5... not bad... 3 engines in 1 year.. none have broken.. and barly have more than 80 hours on each.

 

All I want is reliablity without the need to build up the motor incase something blows... and also something which isnt too expensive so when it does blow.. i dont at the same time

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ^AnDre^ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know the tranny issues was discussed before, but I dont get any of this s#%t in regards to transmission and transmission codes and gearing. So far ive wasted 3000 on useless lsd's and mis parts which dont fit and I was told would fit and supposivly will fit.... AARRRRGGGHH!!!.... sorry.. just needed to loose some steam there....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well the B16 / B18C differentials (LSDs) + ring gears are different. The gears
themselves are interchangeable. This is probably the source of all your
headaches. The YS1 internals are no different than any other hydro-style B16
transmission.

B16s are lovely in 1800 lb cars. But in something 2000 lbs or more, you'll need
more torque if you want to keep up pace with big bore or boosted cars.

 

our ef weighs in a little on the porky side @ 2320 lbs with me (@ 184 lbs) and 108 lbs of fuel which puts it at 2028 lbs dry.

so for more torque. What am I to do?... ive been tempted by my mechanic to do the b20 vtec swap, but i dont know what to do (b18c5 ?)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ^AnDre^ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so for more torque. What am I to do?... ive been tempted by my mechanic to do the b20 vtec swap, but i dont know what to do (b18c5 ?)</TD></TR></TABLE>

b20vtec isn't reliable -- it won't survive the RPMs for long.
b18c5 is definitely the better move. Especially w/ JDM 4.7 final.
Turbo? Most people dont like dealing with the tuning + heat issues,
but if you can sort it out -- it's fast too.

Thawley isn't too far off. I've driven a B20 w/ short gearing. And it's pretty nice
especially for tighter circuits. But it runs out of RPMs too quick.

I'm building 2.0L sleeved B18C block. But I dont "race". I just like screwing
around @ HPDEs.

 

maby a k20a is in line :D

 

but I know Kensai, a local Grand-Am team is having massive tranny problems with the K20a RSX's they are running.

ok.. so im thinking b18c5 for the price difference between this and the k20a swap. but what kind of numbers can I put down to the ground reliably??

what kind of numbers with this motor and an AEM EMS ?

the previous owner of the engine was telling me he was getting 170 hp at the weels with the same setup

 

What about just getting smaller tires to change the gearing?

 

the smaller tires which are allowable will only give me a fraction more rpm to play with, still not enough.

 

You're talking about being on a budget and also talking about a K-swap. Those two things don't belong in the same sentence. What class are you running in, and what are the rules governing engine modifications? Stock bottom end? Completely open bottom end? What?

I still am a fan of the non-VTEC engines (B18B, B20). They may not rev as high as the B18Cs or B16s, but they just don't need to. Thawley's graph shows that his B20 makes more power EVERYWHERE, except for after where the B20 runs out of revs. If you adjust the revs a bit (rod bolts, valvetrain, that should be it to make it reliable) with shorter gearing, you'll be fine. As a comparison, on a short track (Shenandoah) my car with a B20 was about on-par with a mostly stock ITR on the straights. That was before my P8R head and cams too, so I was at 144whp and 125lb/ft.

 

lol.. i know talking about budget at swap. Well the only way I would fathem it is that I would sell the b16b, the ys1, my brand net ats carbon lsd, b18b, and use that to offset the cost of the install. I am running T2 right now with the Ontario Touring GT series, and next year either will still be in T2 or T1 (preferably T2). As for rules, you can use just about any motor up to 2.6 ltrs keeping the same # of cylinders as the car started. Now we do get penalized for v-tec ( weight addition, but we already meet that). We wouldn't really get hit too much harder if we ran the K series. The tracks we use are large (similar to watkins Glen with a large turn similar to laguna seca (Mosport International Raceway), and the other is a smaller tighter track - Shannonville.)

 

Do you know what your estimated top speed is on the longest part of the long track? You'll want to keep that in mind, in case you CAN reach, say 130mph, but are gear-limited to reach only 122 or something.

 

well... my spedo dont work because on the track we dont really need it, Rpm's are more important.

could anyone calculate my theoretical speed at 8700 rpm @ 4th gear with a YS1 transmission with 147 hp and 97 ft/lbs torque with a 205/50/15 tire?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ^AnDre^ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could anyone calculate my theoretical speed at 8700 rpm @ 4th gear with a YS1 transmission with 147 hp and 97 ft/lbs torque with a 205/50/15 tire? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Have you considered looking for the formula and doing it yourself?

Give a man a fish, feed him today.
Teach a man to fish, feed him for life...

 

Keep in mind your power isn't going to affect gearing speeds, as that's a mechanical function. RPM, tranny gearing, and tire diameter are the only things that affect it. For what you've listed, the following speeds are matched to the respective gears:
1st: 41.3mph
2nd: 64.8mph
3rd: 93.5mph
4th: 123.3mph
5th: 160.9mph

That's pretty crappy. With that huge differential between 4th and 5th, its no wonder you're not accelerating. As a comparison, if you threw in a 4.929 FD, these would be your speeds:

1st: 36.8mph
2nd: 57.9mph
3rd: 83.5mph
4th: 110.0mph
5th: 143.7mph

That's much better, and with the power you're putting down, I don't see you going faster than 143mph. I'm making a bit more power than you, and I haven't seen more than 130 or so on a long track.

I did all of that with the links I provided you earlier. Poke around and play with it.

 

wow... yeah that would explain it a bit.

What is the formula to calculate the speeds as you did?