no gain from mpfi
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: cincinnati, oh, united states
Re: no gain from mpfi (civicdx(dpfi))
list all of the parts you changed and added. it's not going to be a HUGE gain, just more or less a good starting point for swapping in a different engine.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 83
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From: ORLANDO, FL, US
Re: no gain from mpfi (DelSolDon)
parts list: intake mani y8, si distributor, pr4 ecu, and a short air intake. still runs like i didnt even upgrade anithing, the only diffence is longer rpm but i think thats just becaues of the cpu. 
something different
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1
From: grand rapids/chicago, usa
Re: no gain from mpfi (DelSolDon)
have you checked the timing on it? it might be way the hell off.
you should notice, literally, a 30 hp gain. night and day kinda stuff.
does it smoke a lot? is the bottom end decent?
you should notice, literally, a 30 hp gain. night and day kinda stuff.
does it smoke a lot? is the bottom end decent?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 83
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From: ORLANDO, FL, US
Re: no gain from mpfi (redzcstandardhatch)
the timing just recently jump teeth but fixed rigth away,the resitor box was eliminated becase 96- donot need resistor box? and the injectors are stock from y8 manifold, it does not smoke,the botom end is good
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,038
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From: Kitchener, On, Canada
Re: no gain from mpfi (redzcstandardhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redzcstandardhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have you checked the timing on it? it might be way the hell off.
you should notice, literally, a 30 hp gain. night and day kinda stuff.
does it smoke a lot? is the bottom end decent?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
WTF? You ricer.
D15B2 - 92hp
D16A6 - 108hp.
Adding the MPFI, will not give it more then 5-10 hp more, tops, if that!
There is no way a 1.5L on MPFI make into the 122hp range. It simply doesn't have the comp or the cam to do it.
you should notice, literally, a 30 hp gain. night and day kinda stuff.
does it smoke a lot? is the bottom end decent?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
WTF? You ricer.
D15B2 - 92hp
D16A6 - 108hp.
Adding the MPFI, will not give it more then 5-10 hp more, tops, if that!
There is no way a 1.5L on MPFI make into the 122hp range. It simply doesn't have the comp or the cam to do it.
something different
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1
From: grand rapids/chicago, usa
Re: no gain from mpfi (ludesrv)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesrv »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
WTF? You ricer.
D15B2 - 92hp
D16A6 - 108hp.
Adding the MPFI, will not give it more then 5-10 hp more, tops, if that!
There is no way a 1.5L on MPFI make into the 122hp range. It simply doesn't have the comp or the cam to do it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
no need to be a dick about it, let me explain.
there are areas in the midrange where over 30 hp will be made. might not be absolute top end, but it has been dyno proven, i'll see if i can find it. old post here or on another forum. if you have driven a car imediately before and after an MPFI swap, you'd know what i'm talking about. i also believe that 92 HP is a grossly overated number for a dx DPFI engine.
the STD model DPFI engines made 72 whp i believe. dont call me a ricer, i've got plenty of experience here. i've done 15-20 MPFI swaps, and along with some tune-up stuff, and a better intake manifold (y8), that engine will make a drastic changes. maybe not 30 whp WOT, but in the midrange areas it is entirely possible. the PR4 ecu is probably hurting this guy too.
on the dpfi engines, the timing marks can look close-to-perfect and be a tooth off. (timing belt marks). you quite possibly have the timing a hair off. it happened to me twice. get a timing light on it and see where your at. i bet it is a tooth retarded. its very easy to do.
also, the shorter FD of the si trans makes the car feel much more peppy, doing an si trans swap (although good trannies are hard to find nowadays) would really surprise you. NA d15's just dont have the lower end to overcome the gearing.
Modified by redzcstandardhatch at 4:08 PM 8/31/2006
WTF? You ricer.
D15B2 - 92hp
D16A6 - 108hp.
Adding the MPFI, will not give it more then 5-10 hp more, tops, if that!
There is no way a 1.5L on MPFI make into the 122hp range. It simply doesn't have the comp or the cam to do it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
no need to be a dick about it, let me explain.
there are areas in the midrange where over 30 hp will be made. might not be absolute top end, but it has been dyno proven, i'll see if i can find it. old post here or on another forum. if you have driven a car imediately before and after an MPFI swap, you'd know what i'm talking about. i also believe that 92 HP is a grossly overated number for a dx DPFI engine.
the STD model DPFI engines made 72 whp i believe. dont call me a ricer, i've got plenty of experience here. i've done 15-20 MPFI swaps, and along with some tune-up stuff, and a better intake manifold (y8), that engine will make a drastic changes. maybe not 30 whp WOT, but in the midrange areas it is entirely possible. the PR4 ecu is probably hurting this guy too.
on the dpfi engines, the timing marks can look close-to-perfect and be a tooth off. (timing belt marks). you quite possibly have the timing a hair off. it happened to me twice. get a timing light on it and see where your at. i bet it is a tooth retarded. its very easy to do.
also, the shorter FD of the si trans makes the car feel much more peppy, doing an si trans swap (although good trannies are hard to find nowadays) would really surprise you. NA d15's just dont have the lower end to overcome the gearing.
Modified by redzcstandardhatch at 4:08 PM 8/31/2006
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,038
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From: Kitchener, On, Canada
Re: no gain from mpfi (redzcstandardhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redzcstandardhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
no need to be a dick about it, let me explain.
there are areas in the midrange where over 30 hp will be made. might not be absolute top end, but it has been dyno proven, i'll see if i can find it. old post here or on another forum. if you have driven a car imediately before and after an MPFI swap, you'd know what i'm talking about. i also believe that 92 HP is a grossly overated number for a dx DPFI engine.
the STD model DPFI engines made 72 whp i believe. dont call me a ricer, i've got plenty of experience here. i've done 15-20 MPFI swaps, and along with some tune-up stuff, and a better intake manifold (y8), that engine will make a drastic changes. maybe not 30 whp WOT, but in the midrange areas it is entirely possible. the PR4 ecu is probably hurting this guy too.
on the dpfi engines, the timing marks can look close-to-perfect and be a tooth off. (timing belt marks). you quite possibly have the timing a hair off. it happened to me twice. get a timing light on it and see where your at. i bet it is a tooth retarded. its very easy to do.
also, the shorter FD of the si trans makes the car feel much more peppy, doing an si trans swap (although good trannies are hard to find nowadays) would really surprise you. NA d15's just dont have the lower end to overcome the gearing.
Modified by redzcstandardhatch at 4:08 PM 8/31/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
The tranny does do a difference. He should throw an Si cam in there to help out the intake manifold. The D15 can is weak, and is slowing him down a good amount.
The ECU, as I mentioned before, is what's more then likely killing his power. Also, he shouldn't really rev the engine past 6400rpm, the d15 head was not designed for that kind of revving (7000rpm PR4 cut I beleive).
no need to be a dick about it, let me explain.
there are areas in the midrange where over 30 hp will be made. might not be absolute top end, but it has been dyno proven, i'll see if i can find it. old post here or on another forum. if you have driven a car imediately before and after an MPFI swap, you'd know what i'm talking about. i also believe that 92 HP is a grossly overated number for a dx DPFI engine.
the STD model DPFI engines made 72 whp i believe. dont call me a ricer, i've got plenty of experience here. i've done 15-20 MPFI swaps, and along with some tune-up stuff, and a better intake manifold (y8), that engine will make a drastic changes. maybe not 30 whp WOT, but in the midrange areas it is entirely possible. the PR4 ecu is probably hurting this guy too.
on the dpfi engines, the timing marks can look close-to-perfect and be a tooth off. (timing belt marks). you quite possibly have the timing a hair off. it happened to me twice. get a timing light on it and see where your at. i bet it is a tooth retarded. its very easy to do.
also, the shorter FD of the si trans makes the car feel much more peppy, doing an si trans swap (although good trannies are hard to find nowadays) would really surprise you. NA d15's just dont have the lower end to overcome the gearing.
Modified by redzcstandardhatch at 4:08 PM 8/31/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
The tranny does do a difference. He should throw an Si cam in there to help out the intake manifold. The D15 can is weak, and is slowing him down a good amount.
The ECU, as I mentioned before, is what's more then likely killing his power. Also, he shouldn't really rev the engine past 6400rpm, the d15 head was not designed for that kind of revving (7000rpm PR4 cut I beleive).
something different
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1
From: grand rapids/chicago, usa
the d15 and d16 heads are the same, same casting, etc..
the cam probably isnt making power past 6k ish, but he can probably rev it as high as he wants. we've reved old d15s w/ stock cams past 7500 and not hurt anything. the springs/retainers might be different, but they look identical.
advice to original poster, i'd buy a reground cam (deltacam.com, or exospeed seem to be the best to work with), that, along with checking your timing and tuning it, could make you some nice HP. i just sent a few a6 cams to delta yesterday.. they're regrind stuff runs about 90-100 bucks plus core charge. we're doing several HIGH hp turbo a6 cars, mine, another guys and tallkyles, and delta gave us a good deal on cams. tallkyle already has one in his car, and love the cam. the delta cam guys seem really knowledgable and helpful, you might want to call them if your thinking of getting a little deeper into this.
the cam probably isnt making power past 6k ish, but he can probably rev it as high as he wants. we've reved old d15s w/ stock cams past 7500 and not hurt anything. the springs/retainers might be different, but they look identical.
advice to original poster, i'd buy a reground cam (deltacam.com, or exospeed seem to be the best to work with), that, along with checking your timing and tuning it, could make you some nice HP. i just sent a few a6 cams to delta yesterday.. they're regrind stuff runs about 90-100 bucks plus core charge. we're doing several HIGH hp turbo a6 cars, mine, another guys and tallkyles, and delta gave us a good deal on cams. tallkyle already has one in his car, and love the cam. the delta cam guys seem really knowledgable and helpful, you might want to call them if your thinking of getting a little deeper into this.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 354
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From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
clearly u did something wrong as there a HUGE difference from dpfi to mpfi. Ya everyones right...get the pm6 ecu for starters...and ur using the y8 intake mani...is your intake temp sensor wired up? are u using the a6 throttle body..and tps?...any codes? CEL?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 83
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From: ORLANDO, FL, US
Re: (mattie_96)
no cel codes everything is wired up correctly, iam using a stock y8 with every thing, sensors td body and stock tps. there is like something holding it back from its full potention.dont know what it is but when i get home from work ill put in the pm6 and see what happens.
Re: (civicdx(dpfi))
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicdx(dpfi) »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much for the cam, for the tranni ill have to wait , my car is auto that the only problem 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I pm'ed you. And yes a large problem is your auto. That kills performance.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I pm'ed you. And yes a large problem is your auto. That kills performance.
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,296
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From: Madison, WI, United States of America
that's about it. a couple motormounts are different, but you can solve that by just requesting the seller of the tranny to leave them on.
the biggest problem is that you have to drill holes to hold the shifter up, and fill the hole where the shift cable went. another thing is you have to trick the wiring harness to think the car's in park all the time so the starter will crank.
it's not super hard, if you can work under a car and can benchpress 50 pounds you can do it. friends can make parts easier, though.
the biggest problem is that you have to drill holes to hold the shifter up, and fill the hole where the shift cable went. another thing is you have to trick the wiring harness to think the car's in park all the time so the starter will crank.
it's not super hard, if you can work under a car and can benchpress 50 pounds you can do it. friends can make parts easier, though.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 34
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From: Long Beach, CA, 90815
Re: (driveahonda)
I just did mine from dpfi to mpfi also and i can feel the hp gain to it At first i put the ecu pm6 and its blinking 11 times so i put it away now i put the 90 integra ecu LS and its running good.