I was at work reading the dailey news about the boston massacre(yeh the yanks beat them up bad) and it showed up an article about more than 70% of the automobiles made from 2002 and up had a black box installed hidden in the car...
Court has been discussing this issue since the data is supposed to be for data gathering when an accident happens but it can also make your privacy vulnerable. Ford and GM came with the idea and the gov't is backing up the program but how come this is so a secret and they're not telling us anything about it?

I was just wondering ... i mean this isn't really a tech thread i just posted but whats your take on this guys? we may be driving our cars while the gov't is invading our privacy?

 

wow..
THATS SICK, AND BAD!!
tomorrow i'll TAKE MY CAR APART!!

 

so many people have dissasembled their cars completely, someone would have found a box if there was one in a honda

 

it's not a black box like an actual black box in an airplane that is uber secured and fire/bullet proof. the service tech at honda told me to be real careful about how i drive for a while when breaking it in because if i messed something up immediately while it was in "break in" period honda WOULD know about it. all he told me is that they can read an ecu like a microsoft word file and see how the person has been driving. i dont know how true it is, but this kinda goes in with that. makes u question some of the **** u do huh

 

The ECU logs how you drive to an extent I believe. Somewhere I remember reading something about it logging the last 1000 user actions performed.. braking, shifting, at which speeds and RPM ect ect... I don't think its invading privacy, now if they had a box that sent your location and license plate number to the police anytime you speed or do anything wrong... then id be pissed.

 

Many may be surprised how many cars come with these now...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

New rule: Car buyers must be told about 'black boxes'

Rule will also require a uniform set of data be recorded, making it easier to use.

August 21 2006: 3:43 PM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has passed a regulation requiring car makers to inform customers when their car has been equipped with an Event Data Recorder, the agency said Monday.

EDRs, similar to "black boxes" used in commercial airliners, record data about what a car is doing in the moments just before and after a crash. Not all of them record the voices of occupants (some do) but they do record things like speed, steering wheel movement, how hard the brakes are being pressed, throttle percentage and the actual movement of the car itself.

About 64 percent of model year 2005 cars were equipped with EDRs, according to NHTSA. Some manufacturer's already include information about the EDR in the owners manual, but not all, said Rae Tyson, a spokesman for NHTSA.

"If you have a new vehicle, chances are it's got one," he said.

Data from the recorders is used by law enforcement and attorneys to recreate events directly leading up to an accident. Data is also used by car companies to research how cars and drivers perform in actual crashes.

Some privacy advocates have expressed concern that the data, which can be used as evidence in court cases, is being collected without the knowledge of vehicle owners and drivers.

The devices are virtually impossible to disable because their functioning is so tightly integrated with vehicle safety systems such as airbags and anti-lock brakes.

Several states have already passed laws that restrict how the data can be used.

Car companies must comply with the new regulation beginning in the 2011 model year. Information about the EDR, if one is installed, will have to be included in the vehicle's owner's manual.

The new rule also requires EDRs to collect a uniform set of data. Having access to uniform data will help investigators to recreate crashes and determine causes, the agency said.

More-uniform data will also make it easier to develop systems so that, in cars equipped with automatic 911 emergency notification, data about the crash can also be passed along to paramedics and ambulance crews.

The data can also be used to research better road designs and ways to better protect young and old drivers, said Robert Sinclair, a spokesman for the New York chapter of AAA.

AAA had previously expressed concern to NHTSA about privacy issues that might hamper public acceptance of the systems. Those concerns seem to be addressed by the new rule, Sinclair said.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

These were used alot for insurance fraud, but I guess they passed a law recently that they cant use the info in court or something.

edit: just found this out also;


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EDR's also record peak information as well as accident. So if you take you vehicle to a drag strip ONCE, and this is discovered while reading the EDR information, it can viod a warranty.

With links such as onstar, they could be able to send speeding tickets to an owner via mail and data tracking. You would deserve it if you are actually speeding, but it makes things a lot easier to issue such tickets.



</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

it can actually locate your position like an airplane's black box does. New technology was being used by the gov't in automobiles but if this is so good and safe for drivers and crimes then why wasn't this discussed to the public or why was this in fact a secret?

 

Here are two differing articles showing the spin that can be put on the same story.

From AOL: http://autos.aol.com/article/g...90001

From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/....html

EDR's record the last 10 seconds of data and re-write over that data every second. It's used for a number of different things. Car company's use them to make sure their air bags are being deployed correctly, ABS and traction/stability control systems are working correctly.

One thing they're NOT using it for is to issue tickets remotely. You're not driving an indy car that needs to record max RPM's achieved and if you think your Honda Technician at the dealership can find that info, you're mistaken. Continue to beat the tar out of your car, I know I am!

 

i heard that hey were going to start sending speeding tickets to onstar users....its a bunch of bs to me

 

Old wives tale.

"The Government is spying on me. The nurses are stealing my money. There are aliens living in my underpants."

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChicagoCTS32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Old wives tale.

"The Government is spying on me. The nurses are stealing my money. There are aliens living in my underpants." </TD></TR></TABLE>

so what happens when aliens really are living in your underpants?

and with this whole "nobody has privacy because im the big bad bush and everyones a terriost" it wouldnt suprise me if they did start spying on everyone in the name of "homeland security" but thats another topic.

 

Agreed... that is a whole different ball of wax.

My only comment... I don't do anything bad enough to be worried about the government spying on me. I feel more comfortable knowing that they are spying on people and have thrwarted potential terrorist plots. I'm sure those 1000 people that were going to be flying on those UK --&gt; US flights are mighty happy that the terrorists were being spied on as well.

I am also pretty convinced about the aliens in my underpants... either that, or crabs

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChicagoCTS32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Old wives tale.

"The Government is spying on me. The nurses are stealing my money. There are aliens living in my underpants." </TD></TR></TABLE>

the government is spying on you

 

Lies...
Gov't spies on all foreigners. Even the ones born in the US were being tapped and there was an article the cnn posted but the next day everything went away...damn and that I'm hispanic italian i will suffer the consequences...
You're white with an american first and last name they will leave you alone.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Striker_1818 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lies...
Gov't spies on all foreigners. Even the ones born in the US were being tapped and there was an article the cnn posted but the next day everything went away...damn and that I'm hispanic italian i will suffer the consequences...
You're white with an american first and last name they will leave you alone.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ive got an american first name, german last name and im italian/german

haha hopefully nobody spies me running around me house nekkied

 

lol this country's so one-sided and it's all republican but ehh lets not get into politics...however, a black box violates your rights and they don't even tell you on the book manual you get from your dealer up until now when they passed a law

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by modifyORdie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i heard that hey were going to start sending speeding tickets to onstar users....its a bunch of bs to me </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, but 2 years ago the FBI was using Onstar to monitor conversations in the cars out on the west coast. They were told they could do it as long as it didn't interfere with operations. We found out because it screwed up the Onstar system for quite a while


I also read that the Si will retain information on the car for 25 miles for warranty claims and accident evidence. I'm not sure if that's true or not

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChicagoCTS32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

One thing they're NOT using it for is to issue tickets remotely. You're not driving an indy car that needs to record max RPM's achieved and if you think your Honda Technician at the dealership can find that info, you're mistaken. Continue to beat the tar out of your car, I know I am!</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, actually they can. Read my reflash thread. I WATCHED the technician hook up the HDS to my SI and scroll through about 70 options that have info on what my car has and has not done. INCLUDING BREAKING THE REV LIMIT POINT.

 

I was talking to my buddy and he says that on Honda's there's a green and white wire attached to the ecu. Most people who have knowledge would cut it...others won't but yeah it gives info about the car. Let me quote him:

on (9:31:15 AM): you can tell the speeds
on (9:31:22 AM): times braked
on (9:31:42 AM): on hondas ita a green and white wire thats goes to the ecu

but then again i'd never try to cut anything on my car =D

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Striker_1818 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol this country's so one-sided and it's all republican but ehh lets not get into politics...however, a black box violates your rights and they don't even tell you on the book manual you get from your dealer up until now when they passed a law</TD></TR></TABLE>

**** republicans weeeehhooooo!!!!!

sorry...i could have antibush debates ALL DAY

i should run for president all hondas get a special no speedlimit lane

vote for blondes

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by modifyORdie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i should run for president all hondas get a special no speedlimit lane</TD></TR></TABLE>

hondas have those. it's the 65mph lane.

 

So if this is true, then maybe you should drive more Civic-ly minded...

Personally, I'll drive how I choose. I don't give a damn what the black box says.

If you choose to drive like an *** and have an accident. Own up to you it, it's your own fault. Be responsible. Now if it isn't your fault then guess what, you have one more thing proving you weren't at fault. It's a double edged sword.

 

the government is spying on u. they have already looked at this thread because it mentions the word government, spy, and republican. they have come and gone and do it all the time throughout the web

 

True, very true. But I'm sure they got bigger fish to fry. I bet they check on us just to get a laugh and to check out our rides